Jamming (spiking) doors

[fizzix]

I almost never use this action. I'm wondering if it's pretty unused (and possibly could use some improvement) or if I'm just doing things wrong.

Thoughts?

(quick search through forum didn't turn up much on this topic)

[Pete Mack]

It's a relic of an earlier time--as far as I know, nobody uses it, except possibly an early ironman character trying to save on ?Phase Door.
If you do want it to be successful, you need to spike with more than 1 spike (up to 7).

[buzzkill]

Once upon a time, I used tried to jam doors shut and found it not to be worthwhile. The number of turns it takes to securely jam a door makes it prohibitive. Keys, to lock doors, would be better.

[fizzix]

Would any of the following changes help or be worthwhile to implement?

Increase the "Jamming factor" for each spike (3 to fully jam instead of 7ish)
Reduce the weight of spikes
Allow close+jam door in a single turn
Increase throwing damage from spikes
Beginning equipment includes some spikes
Make fully jammed doors more difficult to break down

I think jamming doors should be useful in a specific range of levels, namely the ones that are haunted by the elemental hounds. It seems like this could provide another interesting tactical option.

[d_m]

I would probably rather see spikes removed myself.

[cofresi]

Increase the "Jamming factor" for each spike (3 to fully jam instead of 7ish)
Reduce the weight of spikes
Allow close+jam door in a single turn
Increase throwing damage from spikes
Beginning equipment includes some spikes
Make fully jammed doors more difficult to break down

I think jamming doors should be useful in a specific range of levels

The above would certainly make them more useful if all the changes were implemented. (sans starting equipment in some cases). Weight has always been a big issue, but even for warriors their utility has been extremely limited and not worth the time to use them, at least in my games. It would be a shame to phase out a letter option that employs an item of use.

Here's what i'd prefer: instead of spikes, use Caltrops. The player would drop a caltrop that would slow down opponents. This would be useful in hallways and would only take 1 round to drop. Caltrops are light and could be used by all (non holy ? ) characters. Thus making them useful at low levels when most monsters do not resist slowing. That's the easy way of doing it. Caltrops might be found at the general store (labeled 'snares' , since 'Caltrops' are kind of shady and would be prohibitively expensive to lowbies in the Black Market).

The more complex way would be to set a snare that has a chance of being resisted but will slow down all type of non uniques. The resistance to snares could be related to the characters disarming skill. Thus all clases would find some use at some point, though rogues would benefit best while warriors might still find them handy.

Now the biggie to the above idea is what to rename it to fit ' j ' ?

[Derakon]

How about we just abstract away spikes in general? Let the player jam doors without using spikes, notionally by picking up whatever random litter is handy and shoving it under the door.

As for caltrops, that sounds basically like a player-set trap, albeit a simple one.

[Hariolor]

I was just thinking tonight as I started a new character that it would be tremendously helpful in the very early going to be able to reliably seal yourself off from enemies, especially when playing a low-hp class/race combo. Currently, there are just too many creatures able to bash down doors even at fairly shallow depths. Not to mention the hordes that are able to open them.

If spikes were far more useful, and maybe did decent throwing damage, I'd carry them at least for the first dive. Then again, if they were removed entirely, I wouldn't miss them. It's having them there, useless yet enticing that bugs me

Then again...why not just abandon the idea of "doors" completely...

[andrewdoull]

I was just thinking tonight as I started a new character that it would be tremendously helpful in the very early going to be able to reliably seal yourself off from enemies, especially when playing a low-hp class/race combo. Currently, there are just too many creatures able to bash down doors even at fairly shallow depths. Not to mention the hordes that are able to open them.

If spikes were far more useful, and maybe did decent throwing damage, I'd carry them at least for the first dive. Then again, if they were removed entirely, I wouldn't miss them. It's having them there, useless yet enticing that bugs me

Then again...why not just abandon the idea of "doors" completely...

I've significantly changed the monsters capable of opening and bashing down doors in Unangband, especially at low level, to try to encourage the use of spikes. IIRC correctly there are too many monsters capable of doing this currently in Angband.

Hmm... might roll a patch if there's any interest.

Andrew

[Magnate]

I've significantly changed the monsters capable of opening and bashing down doors in Unangband, especially at low level, to try to encourage the use of spikes. IIRC correctly there are too many monsters capable of doing this currently in Angband.

Hmm... might roll a patch if there's any interest.

Andrew

I think the heart of the problem is that BASH_DOOR is binary: either they have it (in which case spikes are useless) or they don't. If monsters had a BASH_STR from 0 to (say) 7, spikes would be much more useful. Admittedly this is a big change for a small issue, but could piggyback on something related (like the introduction of monster mana).

Of course, just reducing the number of monsters with BASH_DOOR works too.

[Nightmarjoo]

Like hounds! Why do hounds bash down doors!? You ever see a dog try to get through a door before? It scratches it, whines, and gives up. Angband hounds should so the same!

[dhegler]

Like hounds! Why do hounds bash down doors!? You ever see a dog try to get through a door before? It scratches it, whines, and gives up. Angband hounds should so the same!

Also talking about "bashing", does anyone use this feature? Every time I seem to try to bash down the 1 door that is stuck out of 1000, I get dazed and lose turns. I believe I even tried that with my Half-Troll warrior and had zero luck of bashing one down... It just seems a bit unnecessary if a Half-Troll or Dwarf with high strength can't bash down a dungeon door. Why even have them?

[bebo]

How about we just abstract away spikes in general? Let the player jam doors without using spikes, notionally by picking up whatever random litter is handy and shoving it under the door.

This. Although to actually make the change have some significance as others already mentioned there is the need to actually make jamming useful.

[buzzkill]

Also talking about "bashing", does anyone use this feature? Every time I seem to try to bash down the 1 door that is stuck out of 1000, I get dazed and lose turns.

That's been my experience too. It easier just tunnel, since the depths at which you're likely to encounter stuck doors, you will already have STM.

[tummychow]

I only bash doors if they are locked and my rogue can't unlock them. And who spikes doors? Get rid of spikes and go with locks instead - why can't we lock the doors ourselves? Then the intelligent monsters can lockpick and the stupid ones can bash. The really stupid ones can aimlessly stand on the other side trying to get through.