Drats! Bad Unique Drops!

[dhegler]

I killed Smeagol at dlvl 23 and I only got a single drop of gold! Typically, I get the Phial or something actually decent from him, and usually find him by dlvl 5.

Oh well, that what I get for finding BoS +10 and a 7d8 lance randart by dlvl 20!

Which got me thinking, what were the worst drops you have ever had from uniques?

[Derakon]

There've been plenty of low-level uniques where all I get is the satisfaction of killing them. And then there's plenty of high-level uniques where I just destroy their loot without even identifying it. As far as most disappointing loot in general, I'm pretty sure I once found a Longsword of Slaying (4d5)...

[Magnate]

Which got me thinking, what were the worst drops you have ever had from uniques?

I've lost count of the number of times Wormy dropped nothing. (After the Phial's rarity went up and before this behaviour was fixed to give you an ego item if an attempt to generate a special artifact fails.)

[Hariolor]

A better question might be, when was the last time you got a good drop from a unique.

The dungeon floor lately has been far kinder to me than unique baddies.

[cofresi]

I made it a point to kill the Tarrasque, and all I got for my troubles was a Blessed Executioner's sword. Ancalagon dropped a HA and other junk.

A better question might be, when was the last time you got a good drop from a unique.

I nearly cried when Lungorthin dropped Vilya for me (It was the first elven ring I ever found)!

[Nightmarjoo]

Smeagol dropped: The Halberd 'Ilith', 9d5, (+14, +18), +4 str, slay_evil, kill_demon, sust_wis, see_invis in my winning mage game. He's dropped nothing but gold ever since.

[Magnate]

I made it a point to kill the Tarrasque, and all I got for my troubles was a Blessed Executioner's sword. Ancalagon dropped a HA and other junk.

This is grist to Timo's mill. Both those weapons should be breathtaking finds. The fact that they were junk for you is evidence that something is broken, but I don't have a solution for kills that near the endgame (presumably you were down around 4500' or deeper when you killed it).

[dhegler]

This is grist to Timo's mill. Both those weapons should be breathtaking finds. The fact that they were junk for you is evidence that something is broken, but I don't have a solution for kills that near the endgame (presumably you were down around 4500' or deeper when you killed it).

I agree with the original comment. Once I get to near end-game, almost nothing could make me excited about any drops. At that point, you probably have every artifact you need, minus the elven rings, probably power dragon scale mail, etc. Randarts make me more interested because now I'm not waiting for Ringil, Cubragol to drop, etc...

I would bet that after dlvl 50, most characters are equipped with an artifact weapon that cannot be beat by an ego find. And by that point, the only ego armors anyone may wear would be elvenkind, BoS, and maybe gloves of thievery with a high dex bonus. And probably by dlvl 75, 90%+ slots are all artifacts. At that point, I know the only thing that kept me going was finding Ringil, Cubragol, PDSM, branded seeker bolts and killing all the uniques. All ego drops were basically worthless, as commented.

[buzzkill]

Is the dungeon just too deep, or is it possible that DL50 occurs too early? Though I don't often make it past 50, it seems to me that levels 50 to 95 or so are just basically replays of the same level over and over again, essentially scumming 45 levels until you read DL98 at which point you scum some more (for consumables???). Of course you are going to have exceptional gear (more often with auto scum on) by time you reach the bottom (if you were to scum DL1 50 times, you would find some nice stuff by the time you were done). The easy solution is to make the really powerful stuff, the no-brainers, even more rare. Egos are useful when artifacts can't be found.

As an afterthought, make scrolls of Deep Decent a common find beyond a certain depth. Get the player to the bottom faster.

[Magnate]

Is the dungeon just too deep, or is it possible that DL50 occurs too early? Though I don't often make it past 50, it seems to me that levels 50 to 95 or so are just basically replays of the same level over and over again, essentially scumming 45 levels until you read DL98 at which point you scum some more (for consumables???). Of course you are going to have exceptional gear (more often with auto scum on) by time you reach the bottom (if you were to scum DL1 50 times, you would find some nice stuff by the time you were done). The easy solution is to make the really powerful stuff, the no-brainers, even more rare. Egos are useful when artifacts can't be found.

As an afterthought, make scrolls of Deep Decent a common find beyond a certain depth. Get the player to the bottom faster.

There has long been discussion about cutting the dungeon to 60 or 75 levels. Between 50 and 98 the only noticeable point is dl80, when speed rings start to appear. Coupled with the lack of variety in dungeons (see UnAndrew's thread), it does make for a boring period.

I'd be happy to leave the dungeon at 100 levels if enough of the interesting stuff in that thread was implemented. I think that would make for a better game.

[d_m]

I would bet that after dlvl 50, most characters are equipped with an artifact weapon that cannot be beat by an ego find. And by that point, the only ego armors anyone may wear would be elvenkind, BoS, and maybe gloves of thievery with a high dex bonus. And probably by dlvl 75, 90%+ slots are all artifacts. At that point, I know the only thing that kept me going was finding Ringil, Cubragol, PDSM, branded seeker bolts and killing all the uniques. All ego drops were basically worthless, as commented.

Don't forget about cloaks of Aman... those can be endgame quality also.

[d_m]

There has long been discussion about cutting the dungeon to 60 or 75 levels. Between 50 and 98 the only noticeable point is dl80, when speed rings start to appear. Coupled with the lack of variety in dungeons (see UnAndrew's thread), it does make for a boring period.

I'd be happy to leave the dungeon at 100 levels if enough of the interesting stuff in that thread was implemented. I think that would make for a better game.

I've always liked the idea of "deep stairs" or shafts or whatever, that take you down 5-10 levels. If they were shafts, I could also imagine them not having up stairways (even when playing with connected stairs).

If about 20% of dungeons have one of these deep down staircases, you could probably dive to the bottom at least twice as fast if you wanted to. I guess that could be a problem, but I imagine it being nice, and it's a pretty discoverable game mechanic for new players.

EDIT: In fact, I could imagine many different colors of down staircases, based on how deep they take you. Maybe an incredibly rare black staircase that takes you to dungeon level 99, for instance!

[Hariolor]

I've always liked the idea of "deep stairs" or shafts or whatever, that take you down 5-10 levels. If they were shafts, I could also imagine them not having up stairways (even when playing with connected stairs).

If about 20% of dungeons have one of these deep down staircases, you could probably dive to the bottom at least twice as fast if you wanted to. I guess that could be a problem, but I imagine it being nice, and it's a pretty discoverable game mechanic for new players.

EDIT: In fact, I could imagine many different colors of down staircases, based on how deep they take you. Maybe an incredibly rare black staircase that takes you to dungeon level 99, for instance!

I like this alot.

I think DL 50-99 are, in fact, quite dull, but with one qualifier.

What makes them dull is that it is often terrifyingly dangerous to dive that low unless you are *really* ready for it. However, once you're ready for it, the vast majority of what you find seems dull because of your excellent preparation (save for graveyards, demon pits, some of the uniques, etc).

As many of the threads here lately have gotten at, there is a non-linearity to the power curve in V right now, in terms of items/artifacts, character stats, insta-kills, monster power, class abilities, etc etc.

Fortunately, we've got a great, active maintainer community that's working towards tweaking a lot of these issues. I can't wait until Takkaria's back and we get a full new version to play with

[Lord Tom]

I would bet that after dlvl 50, most characters are equipped with an artifact weapon that cannot be beat by an ego find.

I don't agree with that at all. Any ego weapon with damage dice 3d6 or better has at least a chance of dealing more damage than most artifacts. Having slay_evil (for endgame), +toDam >15, and bonus blows are the things I look for, especially for Blades of Chaos, Scythes of Slicing, and Maces of Disruption.

[Hariolor]

I don't agree with that at all. Any ego weapon with damage dice 3d6 or better has at least a chance of dealing more damage than most artifacts. Having slay_evil (for endgame), +toDam >15, and bonus blows are the things I look for, especially for Blades of Chaos, Scythes of Slicing, and Maces of Disruption.

Those can be a good swap for fighting M or some of the other highest-level uniques, but usually I'll find an artifact weapon that provides much-needed resists that are more universally useful.