My first game of Angband

[Limeade]

I appreciate that I've only played it once at very low levels. I suspect more exposure to the game would allow me to appreciate the differences between creatures.

You're right, for the most part. I see that you got down to level 3. There's almost nothing of interest from levels 1-4, which provide you with little more than a chance to gather. At level 5 you'll start running into the occasional interesting something.. but it's not until you get to around level 25 that you really start running into interesting and challenging monsters and situations.

[zaimoni]

CON and STR is needed for every starting char. Then the casting stat or DEX or both. No way to max them even with all points spent...

Players usually find better equipment than you can buy for 1000 gold on the first trip down (at least with autoscum or in variants). OTOH, there is no way to raise stats for a loong time. And a couple of points in stats can net you another attack or lots of mana/HP. Compared to that the additional equipment is useless.

Irrelevant critique, since I'm not sacrificing either attacks or mana to get that 800-1000 starting gold in points-based. To replicate this gold level in the other modes, I'd need social status 100. [Test cases for points-based: Dwarf priest, Dwarf paladin, Dunadan paladin.]

If it comes down to getting best all-round stats: autoroller clearly wins over point-based, at least for favored race/class combinations. True, the highest autorolled stat corresponds to the 22-point level in point-based (30-point goes inaccessible in autorolled) -- but it's reasonable to autoroll-max three stats (although whether this is actually needed should be determined by consulting tables.c). That corresponds roughly to spending 66 points -- which is defined out of existence in points-based mode.

[Bandobras]

Irrelevant critique, since I'm not sacrificing either attacks or mana to get that 800-1000 starting gold in points-based. [...]

Interesting. You are right it somewhat depends on race/class, but let's see...

Test cases for points-based: Dwarf priest,

Yeah, I believe you about the attacks here, so let's cross out DEX. However, CON, WIS and STR (carrying and damage bonus?) should be near-maxed here, IMHO. Where do you get all the points? Or which of these do you neglect and why?

Dwarf paladin, Dunadan paladin.

Really no second/thrid attack with a whip even with max STR and DEX (or DEX and STR, or both near-maxed)? Anyway, CON is here even more important as before, STR similarly as before and WIS somewhat less. Again, where to get the points from?

If it comes down to getting best all-round stats: autoroller clearly wins over point-based, at least for favored race/class combinations. True, the highest autorolled stat corresponds to the 22-point level in point-based (30-point goes inaccessible in autorolled) -- but it's reasonable to autoroll-max three stats (although whether this is actually needed should be determined by consulting tables.c). That corresponds roughly to spending 66 points -- which is defined out of existence in points-based mode.

From my experience, with the autoroller you can absolutely max 2 stats and near-max the third, at the cost of having very low remaining ones. I agree, this is much more than what point-based gives you, unless you need that 30 points increase to get 18/50 INT with your Hobbit Mage.

[zaimoni]

A bow and 99 arrows dramatically reduces the importance of CON for the more combat-oriented types.

Dwarf priest: What I want is max STR (18), decent WIS (18/20), then uptweak DEX and CON to thresholds (DEX 10 as a melee attack breakpoint, CON 14 as a regeneration breakpoint).

That leaves me 1000 gold. It's probably worth it for early-game purposes to spend a couple of points on CHA.

Dwarf Paladin: 18/40 STR, 10 DEX gets 3 blows with a whip or dagger. 18/10 WIS for decent spell points. CON is already at the regeneration breakpoint of 14, so leave it alone. Base CHA 9, probably worth spending a point or two on that for early game.

Dunadan Paladin: Do have to trade money vs. mana here. 18/20 STR, 18/10 DEX get three blows with a whip or dagger; CON is already acceptable (15), as is CHA (14); 16 WIS puts me at 700 gold. Some gold can be freed up by going with 18/40 STR (30 pts), as DEX is already at 12; that gets three blows with whip/dagger as with Dwarf Paladin, allowing 18 WIS with 800 gold left over.

[zaimoni]

Actually, my latest test character in V is a Dwarf Priestess. (Absolutely maxed: 18 STR, 18/40 WIS, 16 CHA; the other stats were 3 INT, 11 DEX, 11 CON -- acceptable).

I had to cut corners on armor to get the ?WoR and bow+99 arrows, but I was able to dive to DL4 on the first trip before using recall, as initially planned.

[Bandobras]

I had to cut corners on armor to get the ?WoR and bow+99 arrows, but I was able to dive to DL4 on the first trip before using recall, as initially planned.

Now, that sounds good. Bows are OK and WOR for a faster start is a good idea for brave people. I think I mostly agree with you now, except the trade-off of CON points for AC --- if you don't need much CON because you rely on a bow, you need armor even more. So, that cutting corners was a wise decision IMHO.

[Matthias]

Saving 700 gold by not raising cons? I can make 700 gold on the first run with ease. How long do you need to collect 4 potions of constitution?

[zaimoni]

The main thing I want CON for is regeneration rate. To put things mildly, if there's something going wrong enough that I'm taking unplanned hits and can't escape, then an extra 30-40 hp before statgain isn't going to help. I'm very detection-heavy.

General early strategy for this Priestess is:
1) dive to DL 4 on first run (done)
2) clear DL4/DL3 until have enough money to boost both melee and missile to +9 damage (done; took advantage of a Light Crossbow +5,+5 in the shop).
3) Start diving towards CHA-gain (DL 20) [in progress].
* Keep an eye out for the all-important rods (light, lightning bolts, frost bolts, etc.). Build stacks of: Light, two different bolts. Once the Rods of Light stack is large enough, ditch the wands of Light from my kit. Ideal would be fire and frost, but take what the RNG gives. Use trick shots liberally.
* Hope for a Heavy Crossbow of Extra Shots and some branded bolts.
* Pick up key resistances as they happen, not when I "need" them. Resistance sources always seem deeper than when they're useful.

A while back, I played some Hengband with the option "all levels special" set. (Fortunately, this applied mainly to the main dungeon; the side quests weren't affected.) This taught quite a bit about exotic tactics, as virtually all levels had lesser or greater vaults.