slings, bows and ammo

[Nightmarjoo]

How about making shots per turn based on dex/str like blows in weapons, and do it in a way that makes slings potentially useful? I've never used a +shots launcher over a +might launcher, the limiting reactant is always ammo, not turns if I'm able to safely use a launcher at all (have lots of phase door/blink).

In my winning mage game I was hoping to find a nice sling to use my awesome holy might shots on Morgoth, and I never found one, nor did I find any holy might arrows or bolts, so I just mana stormed him to death. Maybe make good ammo more common and/or more egos, but not necessarily +shots launchers. If you make the multipliers not apply to +dam, couldn't you fairly make more launchers likely to get +might?

[Atarlost]

Infinite 1d2 (+0, +0) ammo wouldn't overpower slings. ToME has effectively infinite slingstones bonused as floor items (from rubble) and they don't make the sling preferred to longbows or crossbows. Nigh unbreakable ammo might be overpowered, but probably not more than the x4 base multiplier of a heavy crossbow.

I was the one who suggested oil flasks, and I said multipliers should not be applied, but range should be increased while the base throwing range is decreased. Since most of the damage of thrown potions is from chemical not kinetic energy it wouldn't make sense for them to get multipliers. Extra shot bonuses would apply, but not damage multipliers.

Nerfing projectile weapons across the board is a seperate issue in my eyes from bringing slings into usefulness. My preference is to halve all the multiplier bonuses. (sling and shortbow 1.5x, longbow and light crossbow 2x, heavy crossbow 2.5x, each point of pval with an extra_might flag +0.5x)

[Antoine]

Nerfing projectile weapons across the board is a seperate issue in my eyes from bringing slings into usefulness. My preference is to halve all the multiplier bonuses. (sling and shortbow 1.5x, longbow and light crossbow 2x, heavy crossbow 2.5x, each point of pval with an extra_might flag +0.5x)

More elegantly and less drastically: make missile slays/brands only x2?

A.

[Atarlost]

I'm not sure why that's more elegant, and it relatively boosts slay evil and slay animal since they're already x2. Slay evil seems to be the prime slay anyhow because it's so generally useful.

[Djabanete]

I'm not sure why that's more elegant, and it relatively boosts slay evil and slay animal since they're already x2. Slay evil seems to be the prime slay anyhow because it's so generally useful.

It's more elegant because then the x3 you see on the box is actually a x3.

And slay evil and slay animal could be reduced correspondingly.

[Antoine]

It's more elegant because then the x3 you see on the box is actually a x3.

And slay evil and slay animal could be reduced correspondingly.

I also like "halve missile to-hit bonus if there is a visible monster standing next to you".

A.

[Antoine]

It's more elegant because then the x3 you see on the box is actually a x3.

And slay evil and slay animal could be reduced correspondingly.

Yes, or remove Slay Evil ammo and turn Morgy into a giant

[miyazaki]

I have an idea--maybe it has been suggested before. Limit the bonuses on launchers to +hit only and ammo to +dam only. This will help nerf the uber-launchers, while making good ammo that much more valuable. It will eliminate the "double-dipping" of the to-dam bonus and also make less breakable ammo more valuable.

[tummychow]

Like that. It would also help tip the favor towards slings because the good ammo would become more durable for slings while all the good arrows would be at risk of utter destruction.
The idea of adding blows to a sling as your stats get better would also be a good idea (I think) but you risk overpowering slings if the equation for blows is too strong, because missiles are already overpowered and the last thing it needs is a 7shot sling with above-average ammo. However, doing it within reason (max +3 blows this way maybe) would be a useful bonus.

[Atarlost]

I thought that relabeling the box would go without saying.

[Djabanete]

I thought that relabeling the box would go without saying.

Point taken, although I still feel that preserving integer multipliers for the shooter is more important than integer multipliers on slays and brands.