item generation

[zaimoni]

This brings up another point that I've been thinking about. There is a problem with the drops being created after the monster is destroyed as opposed to when they spawn. The problem is that they don't use the items they have. If a novice ranger is carrying a wand of acid bolts, don't you think he would use it when he was in mortal danger? I understand that some monsters, like dragons, probably can't wield the weapons they are carrying.

I would expect things like the Wand of Drain Life to be removed from the game, or made sufficiently deeper that the chance of the player being instant-killed by a typically wimpy monster to be nil.

[Magnate]

I would expect things like the Wand of Drain Life to be removed from the game, or made sufficiently deeper that the chance of the player being instant-killed by a typically wimpy monster to be nil.

It has long been understood that monsters and @ are not built the same. Monsters have lots of hp but do (relatively) low damage. @ has far fewer hp but does a ton of damage. So a wand of drain life used by a monster would do only a fraction of the damage it does when used by @.

There's been a proposal for a long while to generate items at the same time as monsters, rather than on monster death. Not sure where it ended up - there isn't a ticket for it, unless I missed it.

[will_asher]

I really don't like the way it uses max(monster level, dungeon level) either. It means there is no reward for killing more difficult monsters at higher levels which seems to reverse the risk/reward mechanic which I find fun. If I manage to kill something nasty then I'd like to be rewarded for it.

I much prefer the idea where it uses a random level between monster level and dungeon level (inclusive) so you might still get lucky and get a good drop from an easy monster, but you're much less likely to do so.

This would reintroduce the problem of too much junk, but then you can simply put a maximum level on which an object is created. So for example if the RNG decided a slay ego is the drop of a novice mage on level 80 then they simply wouldn't drop it at all.

I agree.
(strongly enough to post and say so, but I don't have much to add except that I'll probably do something like this in DaJAngband.)

I also agree that monsters should be limited on what they drop (demons not dropping slay demons, and novice mages not dropping PB1, etc.), but I don't like the idea of monsters using what they carry because I always hated that when I used to play Nethack. I don't know how many times I was killed by something like a kobold with a wand of death. The idea of drain life doing less damage when zapped by a monster seems bogus to me (to use Powerdiver's term).

[buzzkill]

Why on earth would a novice mage be carrying pb1, or a novice priest mb2.

We all know that spell book burn easily. Why can't we use them to re-fuel our torch. Yeah, I know it wouldn't come into play very often, but I can think of at least one occasion when it would have saved my life.

[takkaria]

I really don't like the way it uses max(monster level, dungeon level) either.

Me too; it was a suggestion on r.g.r.a years back implemented as an experiment. It hasn't worked brilliantly and 3.1.2 will change it in some way.

[Obsilium]

A perfectly good reason for a demon to keep a slay demon weapon with him would be to keep other demons in line.

[Whelk]

A perfectly good reason for a demon to keep a slay demon weapon with him would be to keep other demons in line.

I bet the orc captain in Mordor (when Frodo and Sam were masquerading as orcs and got 'drafted') had a whip of slay orc.

For those exposed to the Rankin & Bass rendition: "Where there's a whip, there's a way."