Looking to Dive.

[Zappa]

I've played this game for a long time, but I'm not very good. I've always been a "kill everything" type. I've played a lot of Dwarf Priests but I have started to play with HE Rogues. Now that I have discovered the magic of stealth and reading a lot of the threads on here I'm thinking that I should re-tool my gameplay.

I'd like to learn how to dive, and dive fast. I do not know much about which levels to go to to find certain things like spell books, potions, etc. I do know that FA is important before you get too deep at first.

I understand that I will have to die a lot to figure it out, but I would appreciate some insight on what I need to do get started being a diver.

Thank you!

[Pete Mack]

There are (arguably) two or three levels that matter for monsters.
dl 23: Carrion crawlers, other paralyzers.
dl 34-35: Gravity hounds, Hell hounds, Dreads
dl 44: instakiller RBase and poison breathers.

Rings of FA are available at cl 20
Rings of RPoison are available at dl 40

But "diving" also means learning which monsters can kill you (and avoiding them!) if you don't have the necessary resists.

[Zappa]

But "diving" also means learning which monsters can kill you (and avoiding them!) if you don't have the necessary resists.

I understand that part. I will probably have to learn much of this by re-rolling another character after the monster I should have avoided kills me.

[Zappa]

O.K. I've been taking every down staircase until about dlvl 5 but recalling in case I can buy a bow. No such luck yet. I just discovered throwing flask of oil and that is pretty handy.(this should give you an indication of my skill )

Is it still fashionable to buy a whip right away? I've been setting my stats at 18/30 for STR and DEX, CON at 18 and dumping the rest into INT to bring it to 15. Am I getting warm on that score?

[grapejoose]

I just started diving recently as well. Here's my take on it thus far (as far as pointers/tips/advice go):

Try a mage. Seriously, diving with a high-elf mage is thrilling and will make you a better player in my opinion. I don't even LOOK for a bow to buy now until (and IF I even need one) like 1500 feet down. I just buy some flasks of oil and head straight in. I get to level 3 in a few minutes, get detect doors/stairs, and I'm already usually at 150-250 feet, and I dive hard. By the time I am clvl 10 I have enough unidented crap to sell to get mage book 2 and 3, learn spells, get a level off the casts, get ident, ident the choice stuff, sell that, and have loads of money in no time.

The black market is your friend. check it even when you're very poor (teleport scrolls are the bomb diggity until you can afford to do it yourself with extra SP, as are deep descent scrolls and wand of teleport other (pretty cheap)).

You have to learn to avoid rather than confront. I used to play just like you and was also not very good and started diving and became a much better player very quickly. My last mage attempt was clvl 28, dlvl 49, took me about 1 hour or less, and I shouldn't even have died when I did, could have gone much farther but for a stupid/sleepy mistake.

It's much better to leave a level with a superb feeling that also has a pain in the butt unique/monster that is giving you grief. LEAVE whatever is there that taunts you with it's goodness, you can find it again later, and you will, or something better. You're diving, so anything out of depth at dlvl 20 won't matter, because in a few minutes you're gonna be at dlvl 30 and have a much stronger char already.

Save ego arrows for choice targets and problems. with a decent bow and a set of those you can save yourself many many times over. Even if you are finding loads of them, take them and store them at home and come back. It's worth the trip and you'll thank yourself later when everything goes wrong and you're low on arrows down there.

Screw CON , don't melee, don't get hit, don't get near anything. Sell your dagger, don't carry non ego-items to sell, save your inventory space for essential TO/rods/books/CCW.

Oh and since you're diving, you will be lacking a lot of some things. One GREAT thing I've found is that a ring of Open Wounds is super super handy. it activates like CCW and fixes your pesky blind/confuse. Saved my life MANY times. Very easy to find usually for me.

Anyway I rambled, hope some of that helps. :b I'm still learning too.

joose

[Zappa]

So, do you just take every down staircase you run into? What are the "choice" targets?

Also, I'm a huge fan of ID by use!!! I found a ring of teleport + to speed. Is this something to wear? Maybe use it like I've used teleport traps. A free escape?

I may have to try a Mage, that sounds pretty fun.

I appreciate the rambling btw.

[grapejoose]

I take every down staircase unless a level feeling gives me pause. Then I check to see what's layin on the ground with a rod of treasure detect (scrolls until I get one). If there's stuff in range, or on the way to the stairs, or if I haven't found them yet, I may carefully scrounge around for the goods.

Choice targets are stuff that you know from past experience that you can handle with your resources that is WORTH killing, whether it be good exp or you know it drops items all the time. For example, right now I have 2 rods of light, I just found an orc pit. I'm gonna milk that for exp and whatever few drops I can get because I can lay waste to them in droves in complete safety. I check first to make sure nothing is even remotely dangerous and close to them. I also check to make sure if things go wrong i can tele/telelevel/descent away instantly.

My current mage which I started like 40 minutes ago is level 17, and I'm on dlvl 33 right now (running for my life and burning teleports like mad ). I have almost zero gear. I have resist fire and that is ALL. (see invis and rlite because I'm high-elf..but eh). My stats are what they started at.

Given all that, I really am not afraid. I detect anything dangerous ahead of time and get out of Dodge, so to speak. Still diving.

Oh, and I found a Tenser's but FAT LOT OF GOOD that does me.

joose

edit: perfect example just now

I go sell crap, recall back down, land in some ****, Ibum and a dragon are there. I teleport. Detect monsters/traps. I see a mindflayer in the next room. I rest to get what I can and he comes for me. This is a choice target. he's gonna level me, and drop some goods. So easy, couple frost bolts and he's gone. Dropped me a wand of fire bolts (which i'll use, cause hey, my fail rate is still kinda high, and no-cost spells hell yes), and a long bow +4 +3 which is better than mine, so I'll use that too. )\

choice targets.

[buzzkill]

Just curious. Diving with connected or dis-connected stairs?

[grapejoose]

Connected. I don't really feel like I'm good enough yet to go down some stairs and see that I'm completely hosed and not be able to go back up. Although in reality I notice I'm doing that much much less now. I think on this last run the only time I did it was when I went downstairs into some vibration hounds and said OH F THAT and went back up.

Just died to a 7 headed hydra double shot to the face cause I failed teleport instead of using my staff. What a dolt I am. The shiny unidented potions called to me! Clvl 23 dlvl 39 that time.

joose

[grapejoose]

here's an example of how I go. I put some burritos in the micro to warm up, and i started a new run. In the 5 minutes until the microwave dinged, here's my char dump (attached). not bad

edit: hahhaahh! Blue yeek just dropped a Resistances and Scarabtarices book on dlvl 9.

[Pete Mack]

I've played this game for a long time, but I'm not very good. I've always been a "kill everything" type. I've played a lot of Dwarf Priests but I have started to play with HE Rogues.

The best choice for learning to dive. (Kobold Rogue is extremely good, too.)

I'd like to learn how to dive, and dive fast. I do not know much about which levels to go to to find certain things like spell books, potions, etc.

Go down the stairs when you see them.
Avoid anything remotely scary.
Avoid mobs until you can defeat (kill or frighten) its members in a single turn.
Actively look for good targets. (Rather than killing everything that comes your way.)

[Zappa]

Well here's one I started this morning. Probably not the hottest thing ever but I think I'm getting the hang of it. I tried to ID a ring and got a Ring of the Dog. I recalled and wouldn't you know? No remove curse scrolls.

So my solution to the problem is dive deeper.

[grapejoose]

Dive faster.

[Zappa]

I can't seem to find down stairs all that often.

[Pete Mack]

Don't wear gloves without Free Action or +DEX unless you have a really good reason (like +6 str) to do without 20% of your mana.