Tired of grinding 50'-100, any advice?

[Napsterbater]

Basically my current strategy in V as a HEM is to try to get an enchanted longbow as soon as possible so I can survive a trip down. Ultimately what happens is I'll start the game and grind through 50', then 100', then 50' again. Then I'll check the store again. If no long bow, then I'll grind 50' again. I don't want to scum for a longbow, but these grinds are a pain in the ass, and dangerous, I die a whole lot to grey mushroom patches, and recently, floating eyes. I just blunder into them because I get impatient and try to grind as fast as I can. The game is so much more fun after I start the "real game" of diving as fast as I can, trying to make it to stat-gain but I don't see how I can survive without a weapon.

Does anyone start diving as a mage without one? If so what is the strategy in the early game for survival if you run out of mana? I tried it a few times, but always got my butt stomped. Is it worth enchanting a shortbow or sling or x-bow instead if a longbow just doesn't want to spawn the first two times I check? Or should I just give in and scum?

[LCC]

If there is no longbow in the weapon shop, I just roll another character. I sell my cure wounds potions and scroll of recall to buy a bow and arrows. Then I shoot my way through level one, return to town, buy scroll of recall and more arrows, then start down. If I die that early in the game due to not having cure wounds, I just start another. That help?

[Napsterbater]

I tried the "restart if no longbow" thing for a few games. But it got tedious after awhile, so I switched to grinding. If I can't figure something else out, I might have to go back to it. I just hate the idea of scumming. I find I don't need cure until after my first recall around 500'. Sometimes not until 1000'. I just stay the hell away from Xs. Also they tend to spawn enough in the dungeon to meet my needs. They're generally the last thing I spend money on, if I can't find anything else to use it on. I usually die from teleport mishaps. I really should start recognizing when to use TLevel or Deep Descent instead of teleport.

[saarn]

Not the greatest player on here, but. . .

Don't worry about enchanting your launcher, until it starts to bounce. By that time you'll probably be near dlvl 20, should have funds to actually purchase enchantments, and will probably have seen some good launchers in the dungeon.

My feeling is get any sort of missile launcher you can afford and a few ? phase door for your first trip. If you can't get a missile launcher, buy some flasks of oil to throw.

You should be able to kill most individual monsters with a few magic missiles, and then immediately sleep to get your mana back. Do this until you get to about dlvl 5, by which time you'll probably have phase door spell, and a bit more mana. When you have enough mana to do a few phase doors, then you can take down bigger things by shooting with your missile launcher and phasing whenever the baddy comes near you.

Don't waste time on jellies/molds unless you really need to go through them-- they take way too much energy/time and just leave you vulnerable.

If you see groups of monsters (esp. cave spiders) stay far away until you get some decent beam/area spells and a lot of mana. If you get attacked by fang/grip, shoot them, magic missile, and throw oil at them-- if they get close, use your ? phase door. Once you get enough levels you have detect monsters and detect stairs, you should be pretty set for running away from everything and getting deep fast. 50-100' is way too shallow.

First trip out of the dungeon your char should be high enough that s/he is ready for mb2 (maybe around dlvl 7-10). This should be your second stop before thinking about the enchanted longbow since it will give you lightning bolt and spear of light which are vital for surviving hordes of orcs. Once you can start splatting orcs with spear of light/rods/lightning bolt, then you should start thinking about mb3 and getting some enchantments for your launcher and maybe some resistances.

hope that helps a little.

[Taha]

High Elf Mage is my preferred character combo, and I almost never use a longbow at all until I find one in the dungeon. It probably isn't the best style, but it can work. The only thing I try to buy before my first trip is spell book 2 and possibly some additional lights / food. Getting to level three by killing a few things with magic missiles isn't too challenging. At that point, find hidden traps/doors, detect monsters early and often, kill anything that is alone and easy, and stay near stairs to get out if possible. Avoid large groups and fast breeders, or pick them off from the edges with a very good escape (stairs) nearby. High Elf Mages get mana quickly (make sure you start with 18/50 INT, you get more spells per level and extra mana, they are one of the few combos that can reasonably get that), and if you can fight one monster at a time you can normally magic missile them to death. And the see invisible makes life much safer.

I normally try to dive reasonably fast; no more than one-two character levels gained per dungeon level, and often none if there are down staircases near the start. Then my first trip back to town is at level 11 when I can get identify from spellbook 3. It really doesn't take that long even though you die fairly often. At least it is fun instead of grinding, and once you do break through and get that first trip back to town the character is usually ready for a decent dive. By that point you should have money for all the stuff you need from the stores.

See http://angband.oook.cz/forum/showthread.php?t=894 for some detailed diving help. Post 3 in particular was really helpful for me. I had never beat the game before I realized I was messing around at certain depths for far too long and needed to just dive to the bottom.

Hope that helps.
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[Pete Mack]

The longbow method really won't work in 3.1.1--they are way too expensive. (In fact, any launcher is probably too expensive.) You have to depend on Detect Monsters and Teleportation ASAP, and sneak around without killing much of anything until you reach cl 12. In fact, you are unlikely to be able to kill much until very late in the game.

[Napsterbater]

Ahh I see that now just after upgrading. Maybe I'll just go back to playing rogues. On the upside, I won't have to plunk down 3k for a -DetObj anymore.

[zaimoni]

The longbow method really won't work in 3.1.1--they are way too expensive.

Attention to detail works wonders here. I haven't had too many problems with the longbow method in 3.1.1 as a Priest. I think it's a bit trickier as a mage.

No, you can't purchase it at the start (as a Priest). But it takes less than 6000 player turns to scavenge the gold from DL 1 to purchase it, at least if you went 18 STR so that digging magma veins with a shovel is actually tenable. You just have to pay very careful attention to the time-tick counter on the C)haracter screen so that the store doesn't get a chance to rotate. (I suspect it may actually be a viable strategy to just dive to DL3 immediately, to get the cashflow for a missile weapon much faster).

At that point, don't bother with enchanting the bow (or whatever missile weapon is conveniently handy to purchase...if all there is is a sling, go with that). Just start going down until cashflow starts behaving. With the hyper ID changes in 3.1.1, once you're in wand depth (DL3) it is very difficult not to rack up enough gold to pay for 2 ?WoR/trip even when intentionally not rotating the stores.

[Napsterbater]

Attention to detail works wonders here. I haven't had too many problems with the longbow method in 3.1.1 as a Priest. I think it's a bit trickier as a mage.

No, you can't purchase it at the start (as a Priest). But it takes less than 6000 player turns to scavenge the gold from DL 1 to purchase it, at least if you went 18 STR so that digging magma veins with a shovel is actually tenable. You just have to pay very careful attention to the time-tick counter on the C)haracter screen so that the store doesn't get a chance to rotate. (I suspect it may actually be a viable strategy to just dive to DL3 immediately, to get the cashflow for a missile weapon much faster).

At that point, don't bother with enchanting the bow (or whatever missile weapon is conveniently handy to purchase...if all there is is a sling, go with that). Just start going down until cashflow starts behaving. With the hyper ID changes in 3.1.1, once you're in wand depth (DL3) it is very difficult not to rack up enough gold to pay for 2 ?WoR/trip even when intentionally not rotating the stores.

Thanks. How do you intentionally not rotate the stores? I see a hat of telepathy I'd like to stick around until I have the cash to buy it.

[zaimoni]

Thanks. How do you intentionally not rotate the stores? I see a hat of telepathy I'd like to stick around until I have the cash to buy it.

The stores rotate their stock every 1000 normal-speed player turns i.e. 10,000 time-ticks -- if the player is in the dungeon at the tripwire time. If the player is in town, the stores do not rotate.

This does not work in Zangband, or any variant descended from Zangband (e.g., Hengband or T.O.M.E. ) Those variants will rotate no matter what.