New To Rogues

[ElectricPaladin]

I've just started playing Kobold rogues. Any advice from the old roguers?

[Magnate]

I've just started playing Kobold rogues. Any advice from the old roguers?

I don't know why anyone plays kobolds. If I want a tough rogue I play high elves. If I want one that's not quite as cheesy but has good hp and good skills I play a hobbit. AFAICT a kobold is just a hobbit with slightly better fighting and slightly worse everything else. I guess it must all be about the rpois ...

[ElectricPaladin]

I don't know why anyone plays kobolds. If I want a tough rogue I play high elves. If I want one that's not quite as cheesy but has good hp and good skills I play a hobbit. AFAICT a kobold is just a hobbit with slightly better fighting and slightly worse everything else. I guess it must all be about the rpois ...

I do like the rpois. I'll try hobbit and high elf, though.

[will_asher]

Kobolds also have a slightly better hit die which is worth something, hobbits have a horrible hit die. (unless that's been recently changed..)
That said, I also play hobbits more often than kobolds.

(Maybe I should make them slightly tougher since I reduced their Rpois to a partial resist in DaJAngband.)

[Nile]

I don't know why anyone plays kobolds. If I want a tough rogue I play high elves. If I want one that's not quite as cheesy but has good hp and good skills I play a hobbit. AFAICT a kobold is just a hobbit with slightly better fighting and slightly worse everything else. I guess it must all be about the rpois ...

rPois is definitely huge, enough to make up for everything else IMO. Plus the reasons you said, 1 more hit die than hobbit and better at melee. Also, this may sound contradictory, but I find that being a high elf usually makes the game harder. Because of the high exp modifier. The best way to avoid death is to be in as few situations where you can die. Leveling fast achieves this goal nicely, while leveling slowly is the exact opposite.

I've just started playing Kobold rogues. Any advice from the old roguers?

I'm not an old roguer, but I just won with a Kobold Rogue. Tons easier than a mage, but not as easy as a ranger.

Just how new are you to rogues? What clev&dvel do you make it too?

Rogue specific advice...take advantage of your stealth by picking off one monster at a time. mae always (detect objects). Therefore, upon entering every level you should, in this order (and when you have the spells/resources): mab (detect monsters), mcg (detect invisible, if you're below 40 or so, sooner if you lack see invisible), mae (detect items), mag (detect traps/doors).

Free action, meh, I have lately come to think it's overrated, especially for a rogue. More important is to know which monsters can paralyze, like ghouls, carrion crawlers, and some mages (although you can survive those if they port away). Since you're a rogue, it should be easy to steer clear of monsters you don't want to fight. The Rogue I won with didn't have free action till around dlev 45.

If you are a kobold, then you have rpois, so once you get the basic resists head to dlev 40 asap.

Let's see...just the basic advice really, like always multiple means of escape. I try to always carry ?phase, ?tele, and ?teleLevel throughout the whole game. !ccw till you can replace with !healing. Oh, and carry stacks of wands of teleport other.

This is the hard part: know your limits and learn from your mistakes. For example, if you die while fighting Lorgan or Azog, take note of it, and next time don't fight them so soon.

One last piece of advice, which has saved me many a death...avoid the vaults unless you are totally certain you can own it. It's not worth the risk of death to get an artifact which you will find later anyways. The 3 exceptions to this rule are if you see: 1. A Plain Gold Ring, 2. A 4d5 Long Sword, 3. Power Dragon Scale Mail. In those cases, it's worth dying in an attempt to get the item.

[momo125]

HE Rg was my first win. really hard to beat. you get min 3 attacks off the bat and SI plus good stats. dive as fast as you can and detect objects. get the ones with no obsticles and leave the others alone. this does require some stair scumming, but half of the game is luck anyways. can't remember number of ch i've lost when WOR and die.

[Pete Mack]

I've just started playing Kobold rogues. Any advice from the old roguers?

Don't screw around fighting random crap. Dive, Dive, Dive! (Kobold has top stealth and RPois -- it's one of the two best combinations, along with High Elf.)

[timtek]

Free action, meh, I have lately come to think it's overrated, especially for a rogue. More important is to know which monsters can paralyze, like ghouls, carrion crawlers, and some mages (although you can survive those if they port away). Since you're a rogue, it should be easy to steer clear of monsters you don't want to fight. The Rogue I won with didn't have free action till around dlev 45.

I'm still new to angband and especially rogues, how do you stun monsters?

[fizzix]

hmm, funny timing, I'm currently playing a kobold rogue. I think this is my 4th attempt, 2 died early and 1 died later after a nexus vortex switched str and chr, ugh.

My advice is:

Anything you find that raises stealth is huge in the beginning. So keep an eye out for boots and cloaks of stealth. You're going to be running a lot.

You need detection, so you know where to avoid. at the beginning, wands and staves of light can do this.

Then it's pretty much detection, detection, detection. Run if you have to. You can get a lot deeper with a stealthy rogue than you can with most other classes, so it's really the class you want to play if you want to learn to dive. Or at least, that's why I did it. It's also a bit nervewracking, i'm thinking of playing a nice tank warrior after my current rogue wins or more likely dies.

Anyway, I posted my current attempt in the AAR section. She's doing pretty well for herself, at dlevel 90+.

[Nightmarjoo]

I'm still new to angband and especially rogues, how do you stun monsters?

The spells Shock Wave and Ice Storm in Raal's Tome of Destruction have a chance to stun monsters who don't breathe sound. I haven't gotten far enough with a rogue to know if a rogue can cast either of those spells though.

[Ghen]

I don't know why anyone plays kobolds.

I have a soft spot for kobolds I play them just because.. doesn't matter their pros and cons.

I was also in a RP guild in DAOC where I played a kobold perfectly mwahaha

[tummychow]

Shock Wave works, as does Cloudkill. The others don't.
However, two spells for another slot of inventory? Especially when the rogue is not intended to use a lot of offensive magic? Not worth it. It's like Kelek's Grimoire - nearly useless for rogues, since all the awesome spells are missing (mana storm, banishment...). I don't even carry conjuring/tricks. Confuse monster isn't great, mass sleep is better than sleep monster, teleport self is not a *necessity* and spear of light is kinda useless for me.
As a rogue, you have only one key spellbook: number 3, incantations&illusions. You get Identify and Satisfy Hunger from that book. Those two spells alone are worth the slot. I'd suggest packing two copies once you have enough strength that weight stops being a serious problem (besides, this is the *most* important book for rogues). I also carry number 1 for detect monsters, phase door and detect objects (and stinking cloud, although a lot of things resist it at later levels). I'd also suggest using book 4 for detect enchantment (great for finding treasure) and the hilarious mass sleep spell (put an orc pit to sleep and slay them slowly). If you really get in trouble you also have Teleport Other.
I don't consider Resistances o/Scarabtarices that great, although rogues can make use of it. Raal's book is all attack - nearly useless for a rogue. r2 soundball and r3 poison ball for another slot of inventory is not good enough in my book. (No pun intended.) I would suggest carrying Mordenkainen's because of WoR, even though you can't get (boohoo) rune of protection. It's also good for stair creating. Keep Tenser's as well, although I'd leave it at home because you won't use it that often in the dungeon. You can enchant with that book, and recharge/brand. Kelek's book is almost useless for everybody except mages. 3 spells for rangers (Earthquake, r4 conf ball, destruction), and only one for rogue (bedlam conf ball).
As for races concerning rogues, I play high elf. Don't know why anyone would play hobbit when you could get the same dex and more strength for an experience multiplier of 2x (not significant to me because I take a while in the beginning anyway). Kobolds also sound effective, good stealth and rpoison. I don't use them but I'm sure they work well. However, high elves have more int and superb charisma for that early-game gold. They are about the same in shooting I think.

[fizzix]

Shock Wave works, as does Cloudkill. The others don't.
However, two spells for another slot of inventory? Especially when the rogue is not intended to use a lot of offensive magic? Not worth it. It's like Kelek's Grimoire - nearly useless for rogues, since all the awesome spells are missing (mana storm, banishment...). I don't even carry conjuring/tricks. Confuse monster isn't great, mass sleep is better than sleep monster, teleport self is not a *necessity* and spear of light is kinda useless for me.
As a rogue, you have only one key spellbook: number 3, incantations&illusions. You get Identify and Satisfy Hunger from that book. Those two spells alone are worth the slot. I'd suggest packing two copies once you have enough strength that weight stops being a serious problem (besides, this is the *most* important book for rogues). I also carry number 1 for detect monsters, phase door and detect objects (and stinking cloud, although a lot of things resist it at later levels). I'd also suggest using book 4 for detect enchantment (great for finding treasure) and the hilarious mass sleep spell (put an orc pit to sleep and slay them slowly). If you really get in trouble you also have Teleport Other.
I don't consider Resistances o/Scarabtarices that great, although rogues can make use of it. Raal's book is all attack - nearly useless for a rogue. r2 soundball and r3 poison ball for another slot of inventory is not good enough in my book. (No pun intended.) I would suggest carrying Mordenkainen's because of WoR, even though you can't get (boohoo) rune of protection. It's also good for stair creating. Keep Tenser's as well, although I'd leave it at home because you won't use it that often in the dungeon. You can enchant with that book, and recharge/brand. Kelek's book is almost useless for everybody except mages. 3 spells for rangers (Earthquake, r4 conf ball, destruction), and only one for rogue (bedlam conf ball).
As for races concerning rogues, I play high elf. Don't know why anyone would play hobbit when you could get the same dex and more strength for an experience multiplier of 2x (not significant to me because I take a while in the beginning anyway). Kobolds also sound effective, good stealth and rpoison. I don't use them but I'm sure they work well. However, high elves have more int and superb charisma for that early-game gold. They are about the same in shooting I think.

A couple points.

MB1 is useful, detect monsters is the most utilized spell in the game for me, followed by phase door. (most phase doors are to try and jump across gaps in the dungeon that I'm too lazy to go find the route for)

You're right that teleport self is the most useful spell in 2. I mainly use it to hop to the other side of a dungeon rather than to escape. Because it can put me in a bad situation, it's not useful for escape.

as for MB3, I guess I use identify a lot less than you. By the time I have enough mana to reliably cast it, I'm not really interested on anything that's not identifiable by wearing. (either special or obviously an amulet of weaponmastery) Stone to mud though is a necessity unless you are incredibly strong, so I keep MB3 around pretty much for that. And when you get enough SP, Dinvis becomes regular. Before that, you need to carry around annoying heavy staves.

MB4 has the second most overpowered spell in the game, Teleport Other. It's all I use it for. I don't know why you'd use Detect Enchantment over the cheaper Detect Object.

I find MB5, MB7 and MB8 are all necessities. Double resists are important for taking out certain monsters. Shield is incredibly useful later in the game if you have low AC. but is usually too expensive to cast for most of it. Door creation is useful against summoners if you're anti ASCs. But since otherwise you're going to be carrying rods or scrolls of WoR, you might as well just take MB7 along. Teleport Level is also a good way of getting off a level that's too risky to explore yet not providing immediate danger (since there's a fail chance) Lastly, you forget that MB8 has both heroism and berserker. Two very useful spells. I don't carry MB6 and MB9 though. MB8 can be left at home if you're a mage, but a rogue or a ranger should carry it with them.

Also, experience multiplier is a big deal if you are impatient and get killed a lot through carelessness or you are going for low turn count.

[pampl]

MB4 has the second most overpowered spell in the game, Teleport Other. It's all I use it for. I don't know why you'd use Detect Enchantment over the cheaper Detect Object.

I agree with your other stuff but I have a very different opinion about these two. DEnchant is handy if you have the mana because it doesn't show all the non-magical junk. Casting TP other is less reliable for rogues (IME anyway, I don't know if it's always true) than just using a wand or rod.

[fizzix]

I agree with your other stuff but I have a very different opinion about these two. DEnchant is handy if you have the mana because it doesn't show all the non-magical junk. Casting TP other is less reliable for rogues (IME anyway, I don't know if it's always true) than just using a wand or rod.

Not terribly useful anymore since anything you find on the ground below about dlevel 23 is magical already. There just isn't that much junk around anymore. DEnchant is useful for mages and rangers who don't have Dobject though.

True TO from book has a maximum 95% success rate for rogues, and wands max out closer to 97-98% I could be wrong. The activation for wands and rods are not transparent.