Stacks of Potions/Scrolls

[Whelk]

Thank you so much for adding the possibility to find multiple potions and scrolls in a stack on the ground. This alone has made me enjoy playing Angband much more.

I always hated finding a single potion of (for instance) Cure Critical on the ground. I would just leave it there rather than grab it and worry about judging whether to use it in what may escalate into an emergency. Finding a stack of them, however, makes me think, "hey, nice, I can use these," and I'm willing to use them without worrying about "wasting" that single potion in my inventory.

Consumables should be found in a quantity that makes you willing to use them, rather than being so rare that you hold onto them forever because you have so few, and so never actually use them (because you don't want to waste them). I believe this common problem in games has finally been remedied for Angband. Kudos.

[TJS]

Yes I agree that the stacks make things far more interesting, but I think that the numbers in the stacks on good items are currently too small.

When I pick up a stack of 6-7 potions near the beginning of the game, I'm pretty certain they are going to be something useless like potions of confusion or sleep since the ones you want appear in much lower numbers.

I'd really like to see stacks of 8-12 of things like phase door and !CCW lying about more often.

[buzzkill]

When I pick up a stack of 6-7 potions near the beginning of the game, I'm pretty certain they are going to be something useless like potions of confusion or sleep since the ones you want appear in much lower numbers.

These 'useless' potions make half-way decent missile weapons in the wee-early game. They have saved my butt more than once.

[Donald Jonker]

These 'useless' potions make half-way decent missile weapons in the wee-early game. They have saved my butt more than once.

Would it be too nethackish/unbalancing/complicating to make those potions have a watered-down version of their effects on monsters when thrown?

[TJS]

Would it be too nethackish/unbalancing/complicating to make those potions have a watered-down version of their effects on monsters when thrown?

Yes I'd like to see that as well, perhaps a chance to cause the status effect rather than a watered down version. You could perhaps balance it a bit, by having the effect of the potion happen to you if it is broken in your inventory.

Although I think that there should be a chance that all monsters (yes even including uniques) could be affected by confusion/sleep etc., since otherwise all the rods/wands/staffs/spells that do this are just junk beyond around level 10.

[takkaria]

Yes I'd like to see that as well, perhaps a chance to cause the status effect rather than a watered down version. You could perhaps balance it a bit, by having the effect of the potion happen to you if it is broken in your inventory.

There's a big difference between drinking a potion and getting some on your skin...

[buzzkill]

There's a big difference between drinking a potion and getting some on your skin...

I've no real opinion on this (who would have thunk it) but one could theorize that the broken bottle could cut the skin, or a direct hit in the face could cause temporary blindness regardless of potion type. Either way, a very low percentage.

[PaulBlay]

I've no real opinion on this (who would have thunk it) but one could theorize that the broken bottle could cut the skin, or a direct hit in the face could cause temporary blindness regardless of potion type. Either way, a very low percentage.

Hounds play 'catch' and end up swallowing it.

[Atarlost]

Whose to say these aren't primarily contact agents? Someone's mixing these potions and they must be doing so for a reason. Maybe the potion of poison is a cleaning agent, but I can't imagine much point to a potion of confusion or blindness besides confusing or blinding people. Making people drink them is difficult so they don't accomplish much unless they can work by skin contact.

That would mean the effects of ingesting them would probably be worse. Maybe poison+confusion and poison+blindness.

[TJS]

Whose to say these aren't primarily contact agents? Someone's mixing these potions and they must be doing so for a reason. Maybe the potion of poison is a cleaning agent, but I can't imagine much point to a potion of confusion or blindness besides confusing or blinding people. Making people drink them is difficult so they don't accomplish much unless they can work by skin contact.

That's a really excellent point!

I was thinking about it from a gameplay points of view asking why would you keep these potions if they are no use, but as you've pointed out it works to rationalise them as well ie. why would anyone create these potions, if not for use in battle?

Plus I think the game would be a bit more fun if you can use these potions in some way. Otherwise what purspose do they serve? You drink them once to identify them and then ignore them for the rest of the game.

[Donald Jonker]

That's a really excellent point!

Is it? Sometimes I think you're all insane.

Plus I think the game would be a bit more fun if you can use these potions in some way. Otherwise what purspose do they serve? You drink them once to identify them and then ignore them for the rest of the game.

It wouldn't be that tragic, since they stop showing up after the wee levels. You don't even need to squelch them (which, by the way, is one brilliant new piece of game design, thanks Andi). But if they and wands of sleep/confuse/&c monster were made to work properly, it would be a pretty elegant way of handling things. The potions being a weaker version for the early levels, and then the wands taking over once they start showing up.

I must reiterate from past posts, though, that both solutions must *always* work on monsters if they successfully hit their target/fire from the wand. Otherwise they inevitably remain useless junk.

[Daniel Fishman]

That's a really excellent point!

I was thinking about it from a gameplay points of view asking why would you keep these potions if they are no use, but as you've pointed out it works to rationalise them as well ie. why would anyone create these potions, if not for use in battle?

Plus I think the game would be a bit more fun if you can use these potions in some way. Otherwise what purspose do they serve? You drink them once to identify them and then ignore them for the rest of the game.

From a theme perspective, they were created by malicious alchemists as traps for unwary adventurers. From a gameplay perspective, they serve only to prevent ID-by-use.

[Magnate]

In case anyone is interested, Sangband already implements this: monsters are affected by thrown potions (confused, poisoned etc.) - so the code could probably be borrowed and turned into a patch for V quite easily ...

[buzzkill]

Is it? Sometimes I think you're all insane.

My spell checker doesn't like your name. It believes you to be Donald Junker.

I must reiterate from past posts, though, that both solutions must *always* work on monsters if they successfully hit their target/fire from the wand. Otherwise they inevitably remain useless junk.

Always work? Maybe, if only for a single turn. I've, for a while now, though that such items should have ratings, just like other magical items. You never find a plain old ring of speed. It always has a plus associated with it (why are these never cursed???). The game would lose a piece of it's personality if all current 'variable plus/minus' items were the same. So, working on the assumption that this variability is a good thing, why not extend it to Rods, Staffs, and Wands. Sure a wand of sleep monster +1 may only work against DL1 enemies, and a -1 wand might actually put your character asleep (assuming low CL), but that +17 wand could be very effective against a wide array of very powerful creatures. Then you could introduce a Ring of Wands of other such item to boost their power further.
Alternatively, one could be allowed to expend multiple charges at once for a greater effect.

[takkaria]

Whose to say these aren't primarily contact agents?

Me. :P

Someone's mixing these potions and they must be doing so for a reason. Maybe the potion of poison is a cleaning agent, but I can't imagine much point to a potion of confusion or blindness besides confusing or blinding people. Making people drink them is difficult so they don't accomplish much unless they can work by skin contact.

That would mean the effects of ingesting them would probably be worse. Maybe poison+confusion and poison+blindness.

At the moment, they do what they do on ingestion, and if you throw them, they do some damage. That hits the 90/10 point pretty well, I'd say. Adding in thrown effects for a couple of junk potions that disappear after the first few levels is more effort than it's worth, basically, in terms of both time and code size.