Poll: changes to zephyr hounds

[Atarlost]

And why not just jump to Morgoth from the staircase in the town? Sounds you want to make the game suuuper easy...

That would make the game impossible.

Can you imagine taking with a level 1 charachter and no equipment that you couldn't buy in town? Or even a level 50 charachter and no equipment that you couldn't buy in town.

And Removing 'Z's doesn't neccessarily mean making the game easier. It just means you meet other stuff instead. You could, for example, have the baby and young dragons come in packs instead. A few types can probably be given decently thematic descriptions and moved to 'C' or replaced with very similar 'f's, 'b's or 'B's.

In fact simply splitting the exact same monster stats among several underpopulated letters would probably reduce the complaining while only really effecting Dwar with his summon hound spell.

[jrodman]

Things I dislike about the hounds:

- They are hateful and scary (this is, i think, good)
- They give nothing
- They start awake and notice you from farther away than most monsters anywhere around their native depths.
- There are too dang many of them at certain depths
- The pack logic makes them 'smarter' than enemies which should be smart
- Abusing the "smart" pack logic is an interesting challenge at first, but eventually is tedious (this dovetails with.. too many of them)

The thing is the hounds just suck up too much time in the game. They're too dangerous (gravity hounds, i'm looking at you), so you tend to spend time avoiding them. They come in big clumps so they take many actions to get rid of. They're pesky and hide in rooms which means it takes more actions to hit a given hound. And then there's far too many of them at some depths, so multiply all of these.

I don't know if reducing their frequency is the right or complete solution, but if the plague of hounds is to be solved experimentally, that sounds like the right first experiment to me.
________
volcano vaporizers

[buzzkill]

These hounds are a great source of XP for the low-med level character. IF you have the proper resist and use your you brain you'll be alright, if not, then run away, or whatever. Be thankful they are not fast, because really... I might actually be for smaller, fast moving packs. The light and dark hounds are a gift from the RNG. When's the last time one of those killed you?

[Malak Darkhunter]

Personally I think it would work great and no one would complain if takkira just changed how many got generated to a few less. And I want to make clear z hounds in some other variants do not act the same way as in V. Npp has changed how they are generated, increased their rarirty I think, Sang does not have as many of them. So be careful what your voting on, if your looking at it and you usually play variants, then your opinion might be a little different then those who just play V.

[Malak Darkhunter]

And Removing 'Z's doesn't neccessarily mean making the game easier. It just means you meet other stuff instead. You could, for example, have the baby and young dragons come in packs instead. A few types can probably be given decently thematic descriptions and moved to 'C' or replaced with very similar 'f's, 'b's or 'B's.

In fact simply splitting the exact same monster stats among several underpopulated letters would probably reduce the complaining while only really effecting Dwar with his summon hound spell.

Atarlost- I really like that idea! I think packs of baby dragons would work great and for me fit more into the game, then packs of hounds with every type of breath element weapon that you can think of, some you can't even find any resist for.

[AceRimmer]

These hounds are a great source of XP for the low-med level character. IF you have the proper resist and use your you brain you'll be alright, if not, then run away, or whatever. Be thankful they are not fast, because really... I might actually be for smaller, fast moving packs. The light and dark hounds are a gift from the RNG. When's the last time one of those killed you?

I agree that hounds can pile up experience.

I get killed by light/dark hounds too often... not from direct attacks but because I am blind and haven't yet purchased a staff of teleportation (the sequence often goes: phase door / portal / ?oTeleportation, the hound breathes, you are blind, pathetic last-ditch efforts at survival, "You die."). IMO, energy hounds are the gifts of the RNG.

Additionally, when is the last time you were killed by any of the following: a, b, e, E, F, i, j, J, m, r, v, z? Not all monsters are meant to be lethal.

[Zane314]

Additionally, when is the last time you were killed by any of the following: a, b, e, E, F, i, j, J, m, r, v, z? Not all monsters are meant to be lethal.

I have been killed by more 'm's than I would like to admit, and have felt stupid afterwards every single time.

I think a time vortex has killed me, and I think I've had a character die to an e because I was stupid without FA.

I _might_ have had a swarm of 'a's kill me.

Since I've gotten better at the game, though, my reaction to Z's has mostly been "Sweet, easy exp up until I need to teleport away."

[Pete Mack]

I've definitely been killed by a time vortex, and indirectly by a shimmering vortex. Also, by Omarax, when summoned by M. And I have been whacked (rarely) by Ochre jellies. They show up before I reliably have an escape, and they hit very hard and fast.

[Zikke]

Death molds.




Enough said.

[Fenrir]

Floating eye adjacent to the stairs.

[Magnate]

Well, even after adjusting all the Z rarities, I've now turned off smart packs. It's just infuriating the way they run away from you, unlike any other monster in the game. I'm definitely moving away from the comfort of majority opinion and towards major nerfing. I find myself able to acknowledge the validity of all the other challenges Nick lists, but not hounds.

[Malak Darkhunter]

Well, even after adjusting all the Z rarities, I've now turned off smart packs. It's just infuriating the way they run away from you, unlike any other monster in the game. I'm definitely moving away from the comfort of majority opinion and towards major nerfing. I find myself able to acknowledge the validity of all the other challenges Nick lists, but not hounds.

I agree completely, no other monster is a troublsome, louses, lice, fly's, all the usually bothersome breeders, are as numerous on levels as hounds, hounds are easy xp that's true, but it's not worth it the trouble, and you can't dive straight down 10 levels just to get away from them. It is as I said earlier, other variants I've played I have no problem with hounds, in V though their infuriating, I've never seen a monster actually back away from you as you approach them just so they can breath on you. The strange thing is they even breath on you around corners, like they've got some kind of wing around the corner breath shot. I'm sorry I've been playing these games for over 20 years, since the birth of moria, and never been so irritated at a monster group in the game prevalent on so many levels. I think spellcasters have an easier time at it, but warriors get screwed pretty bad by them. By the time hounds appear you just don't have that much damage or good equipment to kill them quickly, they might need to be lowered to a deeper depth, personally I think I'll just stick to playing variants like 0 and Sang until V has a few more favorable changes that might make me want to play it again. Note Npp made changes to hounds-they acknowledged there were to many of them, I think that in itself gives good reason to have this poll.

[bebo]

IMO, energy hounds are the gifts of the RNG.

except when you just found your first wand of Teleport Other

but i agree, the earlier hounds are a great source of exp - the only possible problem i see is not in how common they are or how they behave, but in how many are generated in a single pack - the number could be toned down a bit.

EDIT: i don't know how monster generation works, but maybe it could be possible to use an algorithm that decreases exponentially the chances of placing a hound pack in the level as more packs are already placed - this would adddress one of the major complaints, too many packs generated in the 20's

Nexus/Gravity hounds are totally a different matter, i directly leave the level when i detect them, but that is because of my playstile more than anything else - removing them would take out an interesting and challenging part of the game. Besides, they are not that common in any case.

In any case i like the game as it is, no change / minor changes are both perfectly fine for me; i really hope that takkaria doesn't remove them or majorly nerf them (but i'm in the camp that doesn't really care about the tolkien lore - oh, the horror! - but rather is a lot more concerned about gameplay)

[Pete Mack]

Well, even after adjusting all the Z rarities, I've now turned off smart packs. It's just infuriating the way they run away from you, unlike any other monster in the game. I'm definitely moving away from the comfort of majority opinion and towards major nerfing. I find myself able to acknowledge the validity of all the other challenges Nick lists, but not hounds.

If they are too frustrating, ignore them. Smart packs makes it possible to walk away and leave them behind. (And there are ways to keep them from running.)

[Magnate]

If they are too frustrating, ignore them. Smart packs makes it possible to walk away and leave them behind. (And there are ways to keep them from running.)

You know it's not that simple. Smart packs does not enable you to leave them behind at normal speed. And frequently they are between you and the stairs.

Nerf them. Nerf them I say!

CC