weapons: multiple blows versus multiple slays

[vorondil]

I'm playing a cl29 human warrior in vanilla, just ho-humming at 900' and 950' waiting for some FA. I was getting frustrated, but then I realized I get an 'excellent' item just about every time I clear out a floor. But I have a question about how to arm myself. Here's the character dump:

http://angband.oook.cz/ladder-show.php?id=8324

Note I have =damage+13. So what would you all have to say about using an HA scimitar (+12,+7) that I could enchant up to (+12,+9) at 2 blows versus using Narthanc at (+9,+9) and 4 blows? With the slay bonus and relatively few non-evil creatures down in the caves, does halving my amount of blows just about even out by doubling the damage roll? Is the probability of missing some of those 4 blows something I have to take into account given enemy AC?

Using the HA scimitar also frees up a ring slot since I use that for see invisible. What do you think?

[vorondil]

LOL I just rtfm'd and realized that slay multipliers are applied only to the damage roll, not to any bonuses.

[Donald Jonker]

a tangential point - FA isn't worth waiting around for. Get a _dEvil from the magic shop and avoid homunculi, illusionists, druids, white and gray wraiths (i think)... a couple others. Those are basically the only ones you'll run into until 1800' or so, and by then you'll find FA somewhere. it may be worth compiling a list of paralysing monsters for the benefit of those who don't wait around for FA (i'll probably do this myself sooner or later). All of them are evil, as far as i know, so you'll always be able to detect them.

Basically, you'll probably run into an out of depth paralyser before 1000' if you keep scumming for FA anyway.

[vorondil]

a tangential point - FA isn't worth waiting around for. Get a _dEvil from the magic shop and avoid homunculi, illusionists, druids, white and gray wraiths (i think)... a couple others.

How often would you recommend to use the _dEvil? I always fire it off when I survey the level at the beginning, but I assume I'd need to do this more often below 950'.

Also, I've seen all of those except for white wraiths. I assume the problem gets worse when they all start showing up in groups.

it may be worth compiling a list of paralysing monsters for the benefit of those who don't wait around for FA (i'll probably do this myself sooner or later). All of them are evil, as far as i know, so you'll always be able to detect them.

Basically, you'll probably run into an out of depth paralyser before 1000' if you keep scumming for FA anyway.

As I noted above, that's very true. Just glancing at the monster spoiler, carrion crawlers, ghouls and vampires are the next big paralyzers after the ones you mentioned (and evil eyes, which I've already met). When do you start running into carrion crawlers, in your experience?

[Donald Jonker]

How often would you recommend to use the _dEvil? I always fire it off when I survey the level at the beginning, but I assume I'd need to do this more often below 950'.

The more the better, but a decent rule of thumb is every time the viewable area shifts significantly - i.e., when you move to a new room. Also during long protracted battles, like clearing orc or troll pits, dEvil every once in a while to make sure nothing is sneaking up on you.

When do you start running into carrion crawlers, in your experience?

Native depth is 1200' for individual ones, 3200' for groups (you can check the spoiler tab at the top of this site for this stuff). Alarmingly, they aren't evil - thus undetectable for warriors; but they paralyze by melee, not at a distance, so still very avoidable.

EDIT: 1700' for groups.

[Pete Mack]

There's one otherl piece of gear that you should carry if you play without FA: rod(s) of light. Illuminating hallways reduces risks by a huge amount. Also beware basilisks and gorgimaera. Avoid ghasts at all cost-double speed with both spell and touch

[Zikke]

I thought Rods of Light light up the room and not in a beam. Or has it just been too long since I've used one...

[Donald Jonker]

I thought Rods of Light light up the room and not in a beam. Or has it just been too long since I've used one...

You're thinking of rods of illumination.

[Zikke]

They all run together when you play a mage

[Pete Mack]

rods of light are even more useful as a Mage: you can dissolve troll and Orc pits a lot easier than with lightning bolt or MM.

[Zikke]

Wait you mean the best way to kill troll pits is something other than holding down the arrow key in a corridor?

[Jungle_Boy]

Wait you mean the best way to kill troll pits is something other than holding down the arrow key in a corridor?

That's my favorite technique!

[vorondil]

lol mine too

[APWhite]

wouldn't be nice if we had a way to easily compare two weapons. I usually have to set up a spreadsheet and input the data. It would be nice if the game could compare the two swap weapons (inscribed with the @w0) and even take into account the different slays.

[starstealer]

I doubt it is all that often that the comparison is all that close - but even if it is - is it worth the effort to determine that something has 1-2 points of dmg better than another weapon.

The problem is there are a number of variables that can change things - and one in particular (opponent's AC) is not static based on the weapon. An extreme case would be a weapon that does 10 less damage per hit, but has a +300 bonus to hit. Against a low AC creature - the other weapon would be clearly superior; against a high AC creature - the more accurate weapon would be superior in achieving more consistent hitting.

Another aspect that makes comparison difficult is the benefit of the slays/branding versus the benefit of the side attributes - regeneration, SI, FA, resists that you don't otherwise cover, etc. You could of course apply a weighting to it - but it would need to cover cases where the extra attribute is useful versus cases where it is not as useful.