How Fast Should You Descend?

[Kooltone]

I keep seeing stuff about experienced players diving down to deep levels really quickly. How exactly do you survive doing that? I have only been playing for about a year, and I tend to scour each level before moving to the next to find as much gear as possible. I rarely use Deep Descent because I've been burned too many times. I still haven't made it past DL 30 without dying.

What makes you comfortable descending quickly and what makes you slow down? Do you wait for certain key items to be in your inventory before you dive? Also, how long do you typically stay at each DL? I've found that I start feeling more comfortable once I find a rod of treasure detection since I can beeline to treasure and avoid some bad fights.

[Estie]

There are many facets to surviving in Angband. As for surviving deep levels with paltry stats and gear, there is one outstanding rule that tops all else:

DONT CLEAR LEVELS.

It is so dominant because everyone does the opposite unless forced to do otherwise.

If you stay on a level for a long time, everything wakes up and youre up against an army of monsters that each can flatten you singlehandedly in no time.

Instead, on entering a new level, do your detections, asses the danger and potential profit and only walk a short distance from the stairs. Once you have hit your target (item on the floor, easy monster kill), or earlier if unexpected danger turns up (and this is going to happen a lot), walk back to the stairs and leave.

Force yourself to do this consistently and you wont need another year to win.
You are going to die, many times. But in the short time you stay alive, youll make fast progress.

[malcontent]

They ain't all gonna be winners

If you dive quickly you accept that you may die quickly. I die a lot, but I don't mind, and sometimes I'm very amused at how it happens. I like a more exciting game and get bored of grinding. Killing uniques can accelerate the game, in either a good (better drops) or bad (you die) way.

You are certainly on the right track - aside from luck its all about information (mapping, detecting, monster memory) and evading (speed, stairs, asym LOS, phase, TS, TO, TL, Destruct, dimension door, etc). And of course, picking the right battles (occasionally I don't). The game can give you a lot of information. It is usually pretty easy to understand what you should have done differently post-mortem.

Ultimately the only way to get comfortable at diving is to dive. I'm not even sure my play style is true diving, I certainly exercise restraint at times.

Things that tell me I can accelerate the game (descend quicker) are major boosts in speed, ability to teleport other, boosts in detection (telepathy being the biggest prize).

[bughunter]

I don't "dive" so much as "descend for the thrill of it."

I find that the game is much more compelling, and beckons me back more, when I go deep enough to get into real trouble. Levels filled with monsters I can handle get boring and unrewarding quickly.

So, in the very early game, a (let's say) kobold ranger with a sling, is going to find even DL1 challenging, risky, and therefore compelling. Once that character starts leveling up, with CL outpacing DL, I'll start to dive, and try to keep the DL 50% to 100% higher than CL... depending on class and the kind equipment I've found so far. At midgame, Wizards and Rogues are gonna be closer to 100% while Rangers and Fighters might be closer to 50%.

So, it usually goes like grind, grind, dive dive, grind, grind, dive dive. Lather, rinse, repeat, kill Morgoth.

(Well, the last bit only happens sometimes.)

And by "dive" I mean, usually, exploring the area nearest the stairs, detecting good loot and easy XP (I love Mumakil for easy XP) and finding the nearest down stair. Sometimes it means going back up if I can't find the down stair, or it's blocked by a nasty monster or unique. Depending on the level feeling after going back up, I may stay or go back down to generate a new level. But I seldom go back up just because I think I've gone too deep.

And, most of all, learn when to RUN!

(edit: "After midgame" -> "At midgame." I knew what I meant... just didn't write it.)

[bughunter]

Oh, and you'll get a sense of how to read the level feelings.

Something with two low numbers, like 3-3 - move on.

A high threat number and low reward number, like 8-4, is going to mean some sort of lair, zoo, or graveyard where you've gotta kill the baddies to get any loot, and it's not guaranteed. It's often worthwhile to find it (via detection! all those monsters are going to be awake) and then decide whether to move on. Sometimes, if you're up to the task of mowing down all those Ms, or o's, or p's, then you will get good XP and maybe, maybe, an item you need.

A low threat number and high reward number, like 4-7 - definitely find what's driving up the reward. It's something lying on the floor, like !Augment or ?Acquisition, or the like. With some experience, you'll know when you've found the item and it's time to move on.

Both numbers high, like 8-8 - definitely a vault. Again, you want detection, but at least the monsters in (most) vaults are generated asleep. With a nice stack of -TO, you can clear out a vault and run. That's always great fun!

(A paladin of mine once found a very powerful blessed randart longsword just lying there, in a dead-end, isolated, unoccupied room in a corner of the map at level 30-something. It was good enough for him to use to endgame. Level feeling: 4-6. Something like that will make you want to clear EVERY level... but it's rare. There will be more stuff further on; dive when it gets boring!)

[tom]

Having high stealth will make dungeon levels 30+ much more survivable. In my opinion it's the single most important mid-game stat. Instead of all the horrors coming at you, you can creep around them in a civilized manner, grabbing loots and picking easy fights.

Try turning on the force descent birth option. It will make you go places you wouldn't dare to 2500' and still no poison resist? No problem, just keep your stealth up high, and use detection. 4000' and still no free action? well, ok... maybe that won't work.

You might have fun playing a rogue with force descent, and carrying around a rod of probing. That way you can learn a whole load about the mid and late game with minimal death risk.

+1 to what everone else said.

[Kooltone]

Thanks for all the tips everyone. It has really helped. I'm currently on DL 43 with a level 29 Hobbit Ranger. I have Heroic Stealth, have been using a hit and run strategy and avoiding a lot of fights. I have never gotten this far nor have I ever gotten such good loot!

[Egavactip]

True diving, as opposed to briskly descending, requires a particular sort of personality, someone who doesn't get attached to a character and is willing to give up all that he/she has put into growing that character. That doesn't tend to be me. I tend to descend pretty quickly, albeit staying a bit longer on the middle levels because the new versions of Angband put so much powerful loot there now, then descend more quickly still through the lower levels, in part because I may be bored somewhat by that point and in part because the newer versions of Angband don't really pay for you to spend much time in the lower levels. The only time I really really quickly descend is when I have quasi-given up on a character, such as when they are missing a key survival ingredient, like rPois, and they are doomed if they don't get it soon, so why not dive really fast anyway--you'll either get what you need or you'll get the freedom to start over and hope for better luck.

[PowerWyrm]

The main rule of Angband is "anything that can oneshot you at 2000ft can also oneshot you at 4900ft". Following this rule, you can pretty much dive to the bottom, the main advantage of this is that the loot is better there...