Sil-Q balancing toward first official release

[saeniel]

Oh Jesus, great news for me!
Thanks!

By the way, I understand, this game is rogue-like, but what about sound content?
I'm music producer and sound designer, maybe it will be great to add some ambient background to emphasize the atmosphere of Angband fortress. Or make some sounds for monsters, when using (r)ecall.
Please, let me know what you think. I'm big fan of J. R. R. Tolkien and Sil, so I'm ready to start work anytime.

[Quirk]

Stupid question, but is Sil-Q is Sil from:

http://www.amirrorclear.net/flowers/game/sil/

or I miss something?

Sil-Q is a fork of Sil that continues development.

See http://angband.oook.cz/forum/showthread.php?t=8816 or if you just want the download, https://github.com/sil-quirk/sil-q/r.../tag/v1.3.2-q2.

https://github.com/sil-quirk/sil-q/releases gives a complete list of changes in chronological order, and http://angband.oook.cz/ladder-browse.php?v=Sil-Q is a separate ladder.

Focus is on:
- replacing underpowered skills
- replacing overpowered skills (on the basis that makes the rest of the skills on the same tree underpowered)
- removing or upgrading items that are generally useless in Sil
- making Morgoth significantly harder to kill

There are a few other tweaks along the way: new artifacts, new uniques, a new enemy, and various ease of use improvements (some of them ported over from mpa-sil, a different fork). Smithing has had many little fixes and rebalances, but one of the biggest is adding guaranteed forges at 500' and 900'.

[saeniel]

Stupid question, but is Sil-Q is Sil from:

http://www.amirrorclear.net/flowers/game/sil/

or I miss something?

[wobbly]

Re longswords: I wouldn't worry too much, they're the strongest weapon for 90% of the game, you may just struggle for damage late game (or not depending on the build). To see how good go 2/5/4/3 on feanor make or wizard mode a 2lb defender longsword & double deflection shield. Finesse & parry then pump melee & evasion. Or simpler just a 3 str fingolfin with a 3lb longsword. They are the most solid reliable weapon & hit through kemen fine with rakuo-bane. You need reasons *not* to use longswords even on a dwarf.

[seraph]

my thoughts:
stealth
dex: i'd still like to see this point lowered.

perception
alchemy: one thing you could do is remove the ability to see curses and id staves and horns (see will and smithing below)
forwarned: this could use a small buff i think

will
channelling: this already ids staves and horns
vengeance: this seems good, but i would probably only take it via smithing. I still don't like strength in adversity. and will abilities in high demand.
this may make polearms more viable.

smithing
weaponsmith/armoursmith: you could add the ability to see curses on the appropriate items through these abilities.
jeweler: that gap of useful stuff is real. i recently had a character at 900' with +10000 exp pooled at an enchanted forge. and i still choose not to invest further into smithing. i think i already had a +1 con amulet and +1 str and/or dex rings. i made stuff at the beginning and some feanorian lamps and that was pretty much all.

[Quirk]

Melee:
Knock Back: Seems fine lower down.
Subtlety: Can be very strong for a stealth build since its boost, but if that build's too good I don't think it's the culprit.
Impale: Bit of a niche skill, but plays nicely with polearms. Fine, but suffers from not increasing damage against single strong enemies.
Anticipate: Not had much feedback yet. I think it's quite strong.
Whirlwind Attack: Strong against crowds. Fine, but also suffers from not increasing damage against single strong enemies.

I'm a bit concerned that things may have swung too far and longswords are a little too feeble when it comes to damage output at present.

Archery
Rout: Happy with the job it's doing right now. Good for Majesty archers or brawler elves who don't want to invest too much into archery.
Crippling Shot: Not a lot of data, it has been taken on winning builds, no-one seems to be complaining. Seems fine.

Archery in general seems like it's quite strong - two of the three Morgoth kills make heavy use of it.

Stealth
Cruel Blow: Appears to be doing the job it's designed to do. Fine.
Coup de Grace: New on the Stealth tree. No real data. Should be quite powerful.

Stealth is mostly in a good place I think.

Perception
Alchemy: Starting to get the impression this may do too much. I confess I reach for it quite early myself.
Forewarned: Niche skill. Probably wouldn't be overpowered at a lower price point or if given a bit of a bump.

Perception was always a strong tree. Alchemy may be too convenient though.

Will
Channeling: Happy with this, it's seeing some use. Good.
Strength in Adversity: Still a little weak, but probably doesn't need a boost.
Vengeance: Happy with this too, it's a strong ability.

Hardiness and Critical Resistance are still front-runners I think but Vengeance does enough to be worth spending XP on.

Smithing
Weaponsmith: Especially good for archers. Not a great deal of extra utility for melee fighters. Has its place, but maybe still a little weak for melee.
Armoursmith: Even with nothing else, being able to make fine armour early on is strong. Scales well later.
Jeweller: There is something of a gap in useful stuff between 7-8 Smithing and 14-16 Smithing. Strong with Artifice.
Enchantment: Differs on an item by item basis; some suffer from not having sufficiently exciting enchantment options.
Artifice: +Grace and +Smithing still allows some progressively broken stuff to be crafted. Much of what I'm seeing is +stats and +damage, particularly on jewellery. This is okay, but I feel that the artifacts being created are a little duller than the promise of Artifice suggests. Would appreciate opinions.
Expertise: Not used a lot, a bit of a niche skill, but probably also fine. Possibly could use a boost.

Smithing still suffers from the "smithing kit" problem, where it's much more effective to carry items that boost Smithing than actually spending XP on raising the skill - and not knowing when the next forge will be makes it harder to commit to saving XP to spend on it.

Song
Song of Challenge: I have conflicting reports. My own experience is that it's good when you're in control of the situation, but doesn't help you out a great deal when you're not (except against archers and scouts/assassins).
Song of Delvings: I think this is a much more interesting effect than Song of Aule, but am still not sure if it does enough to justify where it is on the tree.
Song of Lorien: Early on I boosted this a little in response to claims that it needed to be more viable. With more experience of it, I think it's really quite powerful enough and I may undo the boost. It's been key to a couple of Morgoth kills.
Song of Thresholds: Not widely used, but I've tried it enough to be convinced it's reasonably powerful. I think it's fine.
Song of Valour: Not a lot of data. I think it's very powerful in the endgame and more likely to be overpowered than underpowered.
Song of Mastery: Also boosted a little bit when Lorien was boosted. My main concern with it is that it seems largely to be taken in the throne room. Not sure how to rectify that; it should be good elsewhere too.

The general design of the Song tree - where you can't stack the utility of your picks - is problematic, but I think it would take a radical redesign to fix.

[Quirk]

Gradually things are inching toward a Sil-Q official release.

I'd like to collect people's thoughts on balance now things have had a while to bed in. In particular I'd like to ask:

1) Is Alchemy too strong at its current position? If so, how much stronger is it than it should be - would it be better if it cost 5, 6 or even 7?
2) Song of Challenge: too good, or doesn't do enough?

People who have opinions on other Sil-Q changes, please feel free to share these also.

If anyone's curious what my current opinion is on the various skills that have been added or changed, I'm posting them in the next message. I would use spoiler tags but the spoiler tags seem to have mysteriously disappeared from the forum.