What's with Majesty?

[phaethon]

So I see the Majesty skill (under the Will tree) being used in some ladder dumps (I'm looking at you, wobbly), but I can't figure out how it is valuable. Do you use it, and if so, what is the build?

I've tried to build a couple of characters that I thought would benefit from it, but I just don't see an effect. In both cases, sinking that XP into Song of Elbereth (or anything else) would have given me a lot more mileage.

From what I can tell, Majesty is a mid- to late-game skill since it requires a big XP investment. At late depth, there are only a couple of potentially scary mobs that have low enough Will that Majesty will push them away. Mainly cats, but often I wish they would stay so I can kill them for XP. For most of the enemies I worry about (e.g. Kemenrauko, dragons, horrors), if I can't damage them enough to make them flee anyway, Majesty really doesn't help. The small morale modifier attached to Majesty essentially disappears if I dip below 75% health or if mobs attack in groups.

Here is an example character that is floundering a bit at 950': http://angband.oook.cz/ladder-show.php?id=18908

Any tips on Majesty? At this point, I can't figure out how it is synergistic with anything. It's like Song of Elbereth's wimpy little brother.

[wobbly]

Yeah majesty alone wont work on anything big, it needs a trigger:

horn of terror
song of elbereth
staff of majesty
staves of earthquake/horns of thunder sometimes work
hitting things hard
lights, banes etc.
slaying weapons

With a horn of terror & channeling it will make an ancient serpent run even if you're at low hps. I'm generally using it this way for stealth characters. It my emergency resource when a vampire or greater werewolf spots me. Or I'll use horns of terror to push sleeping great drakes off quickness & miruvor potions.

Another build I use it for is stealth/charge. Charging an unaware monster with a 2handed slay will tend to make it run when I can finish it off with the bow.

Looking at your dump you've got 6 stealth on a melee guy with no stealth skills. I'd be looking at opportunist & trying to find a nargothrond & doriath weapon which should work as triggers for rakuo, dragons, spiders & werewolves.

Oh & as far as making horrors run they're the 1 thing completely immune to fear other then Morgoth. They're not running because they don't.

& for trolls & balrogs you need elbereth. You can make the balrog of hosts flee by making his mob flee but only if you have song of elbereth.

Edit: How is it a big investment? Were you not going to grab the will anyway? You're a fingolfin if you grab the extra con pt it was 2000 or 1 melee. -1 melee won't be a big deal if you can get majesty/opportunist to shine.

[taptap]

What Majesty and some other effects added can do: http://angband.oook.cz/screen-show.php?id=2373 (this was one of my favourite throne room moments).

Majesty pushes down morale of high will opponents that are not affected by Elbereth (Gorthaur in the screen shot), it does not make noise, it conveniently puts you in a position where opponents run after the first hit. This is great for archery in less open areas or characters of middling fighting strength (many wobbly chars that seem so unlikely to survive). It can almost completely supercede other means of defence for archers (crippling shot has an additional morale penalty via slow afair) or make assassins/fencers far more safe (cruel blow penalty on top of weakened morale). If you think of it as addition on top of hardiness, poison resist, critical resist, constitution it is very expensive, but you don't need all these abilities when you are intimidating enough.

[Infinitum]

Huh. Might give it a go next Fingolfin I make. Having to take Inner Light as well smarts though (Song of the Trees is just that much better, as is token smithing for early-ish lamps).

[phaethon]

That makes a lot of sense. I was missing the trigger component. I'm used to going with songs, which just work on their own the way I've played.

As for feeling like it's expensive, that is because I usually neglect the Will tree. I'm too tempted by the forges and often go with smithing. With that, I usually take the Grace points in the Smithing and Perception trees, and then I invest in Song to get the synergy with Aule. With high grace, Will hasn't been too important.

I think I've only had one or two Fingolfin winners, and there I stuck with Hardiness, Crit. Resistance, etc. It's exactly the reason why I want to branch out and try Majesty. :-) I was just struggling to figure out how to get the value out of that skill.

In hindsight, with this character, I should have also taken Rauko-bane sooner. I had already killed 88 Rauko before I got it, and had been struggling with Kemenrauko.

Thanks for the good tips!

[seraph]

crippling shot and slow do not affect morale (although i still think that they should).

cat warriors have super low will. you can probably make them run on sight.

[taptap]

crippling shot and slow do not affect morale (although i still think that they should).

cat warriors have super low will. you can probably make them run on sight.

Oh, I forgot. It was slowing you gives them a bonus, but you slowing them does not give a penalty?

[seraph]

Oh, I forgot. It was slowing you gives them a bonus, but you slowing them does not give a penalty?

yes that's correct.

[HugoVirtuoso]

I tend to take Majesty because it "dumbs-down" monster [morale], especially the deeper level dudes, making them easier to fight. Check out my past Sil runs.

[wobbly]

Didn't realize cruel blow had the morale penalty (other then the -2 morale for stun) but looked it up in the manual & it's a group effect like slaying weapons. So if you land a good critical with it: morale penalty for damage, for stun, for cruel blow, an extra -1 from majesty because -2 will (I assume stunned monsters get that too). Never really tried it but assassination, cruel blow, opportunist, sprinting & majesty probably makes a nice combination.

Another thing to think about is channeling just got a buff (10 voice horns) & belegost dwarfs have both smithing & will affinity, so getting the horn of terror at the 1st forge then picking up majesty later for enemies that are tougher to break (such as the bigger dragons) should be good.

Edit: Looked at the will on the great drakes & the belegost will need some serious will or grace boosters, so helms of defiance, scepters of power etc. Ancient serpents are cowards but you still want majesty for when you get hit hard by their breathe weapon.

[seraph]

Didn't realize cruel blow had the morale penalty (other then the -2 morale for stun) but looked it up in the manual & it's a group effect like slaying weapons. So if you land a good critical with it: morale penalty for damage, for stun, for cruel blow, an extra -1 from majesty because -2 will (I assume stunned monsters get that too). Never really tried it but assassination, cruel blow, opportunist, sprinting & majesty probably makes a nice combination.

i thought cruel blow confused monsters instead of stunning them. so they get a morale penalty for damage and cruel blow, but not for confusion or loss of will.

[wobbly]

Yep. My mistake. I don't play assassins often so I get it mixed up.