noobery (dumb questions)

[Kneller]

1) I'm picking up tons of stuff thinking that even though it's not useful to me (inferior gear, etc.), I might be able to recycle it into something useful later. Is it so or should I just travel light?

2) Speaking of light, I could use more of it. I ran through a torch in just the first and part of the second level. However, I'm not finding replacements. At the rate I'm going, I'll be stumbling around in the dark before long. What can I say? I like to wander and explore. Is there any way to get a more permanent source of light? And, with how much I like to wander, can I expect to have a problem with food, too? But, I've heard you can craft some kind of glowing gem that lasts forever. However, I ignored smithing on the build and can't really craft anything.

3) Speaking of smithing, my reason for ignoring it is because smithing costs XP which competes with my characters skills and abilities (also an XP cost). I figured that having abilities at my disposal all the time was more valuable than throwing together a trinket once in a while. So, I dumped all my points into melee and evasion, some in archery, and a bit into stealth, figuring it would maximize my survivability and exploration capability. On the other hand, by ignoring smithing and voice skills, I'm not throwing away a resource that might actually be handy. Any recommendations on how to get something out of these areas without significantly nerfing my combat prowess?

4) Speaking of stealth, does holding a light source affect stealth? I've been unequipping it when I've wanted to sneak around (logic dictates that holding a flaming stick makes one more noticeable), but I wonder if it matters.

Thanks.

[taptap]

1) I'm picking up tons of stuff thinking that even though it's not useful to me (inferior gear, etc.), I might be able to recycle it into something useful later. Is it so or should I just travel light?

2) Speaking of light, I could use more of it. I ran through a torch in just the first and part of the second level. However, I'm not finding replacements. At the rate I'm going, I'll be stumbling around in the dark before long. What can I say? I like to wander and explore. Is there any way to get a more permanent source of light? And, with how much I like to wander, can I expect to have a problem with food, too? But, I've heard you can craft some kind of glowing gem that lasts forever. However, I ignored smithing on the build and can't really craft anything.

3) Speaking of smithing, my reason for ignoring it is because smithing costs XP which competes with my characters skills and abilities (also an XP cost). I figured that having abilities at my disposal all the time was more valuable than throwing together a trinket once in a while. So, I dumped all my points into melee and evasion, some in archery, and a bit into stealth, figuring it would maximize my survivability and exploration capability. On the other hand, by ignoring smithing and voice skills, I'm not throwing away a resource that might actually be handy. Any recommendations on how to get something out of these areas without significantly nerfing my combat prowess?

4) Speaking of stealth, does holding a light source affect stealth? I've been unequipping it when I've wanted to sneak around (logic dictates that holding a flaming stick makes one more noticeable), but I wonder if it matters.

Thanks.

1) Usually, you can't. Some throwing weapons, substitutes (you can lose equipment at times) or alternative gear is useful though.

2) There is a forge at the second floor you enter. If you take jewellery from smithing, you can make a lesser jewel there. However, usually light as in light vs. no light is not a problem. The problem is the weakness of the light sources you have when you face certain opponents.

3) Just ignoring smithing is fine. Perception (to find traps, open doors and chests) and especially will (to resist traps and special effects) help a lot with survival once you leave the first few floors. I wouldn't ignore song altogether, several songs actually improve your combat prowess.

4) No. Imagine you are disguised as an easterling

[Kneller]

Follow up:

If one is only going to dabble in smithing and voice, what do you recommend to get the most out of a minimal investment?

Can I craft/magic something that gets me food as well? I managed to get to hungry by the third floor, but had not found any food other than that with which I started.

[locus]

I'll add to that and say: the only gear that can be "recycled" is mithril gear. If you're a smith, and you find mithril gear that you don't want to use, you might want to pick it up anyway in hopes of melting it down and smithing better mithril gear later. If you want to smith a mithril corslet you pretty much need to hoard mithril all game. But in the early game you probably aren't finding much mithril.

Also, you can do fine ignoring Song for a long long time. I usually don't bother investing in it until darkness monsters start becoming annoying and I want to pick up Song of the Trees, which is usually 500' or later. The combat booster songs have the disadvantage that they're really loud, and they can draw in extra monster packs, which can be deadly in the early game.

Smithing you should feel free to ignore forever. A moderate investment can give you a boost in the early game, but unless you keep up with investing in it, the gear you smith will pretty quickly be outstripped by random drops. If you're a Feanorean or a dwarf, though, it's worth making something at the first forge, just to get some use out of your smithing aptitude.

[locus]

Dabbling in smithing: 4 skill points plus Jeweler, an investment of 1500 XP, will let you make a pair of +1 accuracy rings unless your grace is abysmal, and also a lesser jewel so you don't have to carry around torches.

Dabbling in song: 5 skill points plus Song of the Trees, an investment of 2000 XP, will let you sing a song to boost your light radius by 1, or 2 if your grace is high. Handy when dealing with darkness monsters.

You can craft a ring of sustenance which will cut your food consumption by 2/3. Generally you start with enough food to make it through the early dungeon and there's plenty of food in the late dungeon, though, so I wouldn't recommend it. Food mostly only becomes an issue if you're using an item that increases your hunger, such as an amulet of regeneration.

[HallucinationMushroom]

Jewelry is a good cheap smithing option. It takes 4 points of smithing to buy it, and unless you are playing a 1 or 0 grace, that automatically gets you access to lesser jewel, and +1 accuracy rings.

The long version:
I'm good at bad logic, so if you had say, invested 5 points into melee, it would take you 1300 to raise your accuracy by 2. This way is 1500, or only 1000 if you play Feanor or a Dwarf. You aren't going to find better rings than +1 to hit for a while, and should you find anything mithril, feanorian lamps are only difficulty 7. Haunted dreams amulets are difficulty 8. Probably the next level jewelry worth making is +13 skill... there you can make +2 accuracy rings. Then, a +1 Con amulet is 15 skill.

Edit: Why I type so slow? Damn you locus.
Edit Edit: HEY MAYBE YOU COULD MAKE SOME ACCURACY RINGS.

[Kneller]

Ok, so based on what you all have said, I have a Noldor Fingolfin 3/4/4/2 Stats and skills starting at 9/7/9/5/5/4/4/5 with assorted bonuses. I went with Fingolfin because I figured the Will affinity would get more use than a smithing affinity, and the house option with perception affinity boosted grace, which is probably the least useful to me. I figure I'll never need to raise smithing or song again and can just focus on other areas. Did I interpret your advice correctly?

[Derakon]

A quick note regarding exploration: even if you have unlimited light, you do not have unlimited time to explore. The game has a "minimum depth" that increments every so often; I'm pretty sure (since, again, I've never played Sil ) that once that depth exceeds your current depth you'll get pushed to the new minimum depth as soon as you take a down staircase. You can check your minimum depth on the character screen.

The clock isn't so strict that you can't explore, but the name of the game is efficiency here. Being too laggardly can leave you forced to descend before you're ready.

[Kneller]

Ok, problem. I have skill level in smithing, but when I go to the character menu to get Jeweler, it says I only have two skill points. What did I do wrong?

Also, sometimes the text box says -more-. Is there a button to see the rest of the text without advancing the game by a turn? Seems like everything I hit (num5, esc, space) also moves to the next turn.

[locus]

Ok, problem. I have skill level in smithing, but when I go to the character menu to get Jeweler, it says I only have two skill points. What did I do wrong?

Also, sometimes the text box says -more-. Is there a button to see the rest of the text without advancing the game by a turn? Seems like everything I hit (num5, esc, space) also moves to the next turn.

You need to buy 4 skill *points* in order to get Jeweler, not just have a total skill of 4.

Space should not advance to the next turn. I think the issue is that it hasn't fully finished processing the previous turn when it says -more-, so it looks like you're skipping a turn when it finishes. But you aren't.

[Kneller]

edit: Nevermind, I figured it out.

[taptap]

Dabbling in song:

Song of Trees can be very handy when overcoming insufficient of light.

Song of Freedom is just generally awesome. Very easily overcomes obstacles such as traps, rubble, pits, opens blocked and finds unfound doors and grants you temporary freedom of movement (which is one of the most useful special effects).

Song of Elbereth is generally underappreciated. Carefully used and with sufficient skill it can completely change the game.

Not dabbling in songs anymore:

Slaying, Staying, Este, Sharpness are obvious candidates, noise can be a problem and they are probably of more use later on. Still, true warriors sing.

[Kneller]

Still, true warriors sing.

Singing is cool, but I'm thinking of doing a stealthier/backstabby build. So, I figure I'd be focused more on Stealth and Perception, seconded by Melee and and maybe some Evasion for safety's sake. I figure I'd dabble in Smithing and Song for basics. But, for this build, I probably only need Song of Silence, right?

But I do have some other questions.

1) I was looking at some of the modifiers for equipment, and the "of shadows" modifier mentions creating an "unnatural darkness". What is that? It sounds like it could be good (improves stealth), or really bad (draws shadowy creatures).

2) I'm trying to work out armor. For stealth, is a shield considered armor for the purpose of the weight penalty? What about helms, boots, gloves, and cloaks?

3) Correct me if I'm wrong. I'm trying to figure out the best backstabby weapon. How are non-integer weights handled? So, a short sword has a weight of 1.5. Does it crit every 8 or 9 points above Evasion? Regardless, I'm thinking that a short sword is the best backstabbing weapon over a long sword, but only if your stealth is quite high (enough to get you at least two crit dice on a backstab).

4) Since it uses the Melee skill, does this mean you can Assassinate with throwing weapons? If so, a throwing mastery/focused attack with finesse and subtlety would be pretty boss with a dagger. You're adding your entire stealth and half your perception to a roll that crits for every 4 or 5 points you exceed evasion. And you can still keep your distance. You could technically do that with a short sword, but I'm not sure how I'd feel about waiting for a turn in Stealth next to a mob before attacking it.

5) With that in mind. Does throwing mastery make all throwing weapons unbreakable, or does it just lower the chance? What if the weapon is enchanted?

6) If you are in Stealth mode, and wait a turn, do you get the +7 for waiting instead of the +5 for Stealth mode, or does Stealth mode cancel that out?

7) Does a Mithril Longsword (2 lbs.) only get a max +2 for Strength? It seems odd, being that Mithril is supposed to be uber, but who knows?

8) How does disguise work? In general, the line of sight modifiers explained in the manual sound confusing to me. Both the "doubles the modifiers for being attacked", and "-1 for each passable square" isn't clear to me. I'm not sure what they are saying in the former, and the latter makes it sound like the further I am away, the greater the penalty.

That's probably good...for now. Thanks for any help.

[wobbly]

1) I was looking at some of the modifiers for equipment, and the "of shadows" modifier mentions creating an "unnatural darkness". What is that? It sounds like it could be good (improves stealth), or really bad (draws shadowy creatures).

It lowers your light radius by 1.

2) I'm trying to work out armor. For stealth, is a shield considered armor for the purpose of the weight penalty? What about helms, boots, gloves, and cloaks?

All of them. If you have the equipment window at the side it shows the total weight at the bottom. Or the character sheet will list the penalty

3) Correct me if I'm wrong. I'm trying to figure out the best backstabby weapon. How are non-integer weights handled? So, a short sword has a weight of 1.5. Does it crit every 8 or 9 points above Evasion? Regardless, I'm thinking that a short sword is the best backstabbing weapon over a long sword, but only if your stealth is quite high (enough to get you at least two crit dice on a backstab).

Someone will correct me if I'm wrong but I think it's +9 for the first crit then another +8 for the second on a 1.5lb weapon. If you have the combat rolls window open you can watch & check.

You'll eventually find a decent 1lb short sword around. A 1.5-2lb spear is also fun with backstab, but you have to smith it yourself & you can't get subtlety for the extra criticals on a spear.

4) Since it uses the Melee skill, does this mean you can Assassinate with throwing weapons? If so, a throwing mastery/focused attack with finesse and subtlety would be pretty boss with a dagger. You're adding your entire stealth and half your perception to a roll that crits for every 4 or 5 points you exceed evasion. And you can still keep your distance. You could technically do that with a short sword, but I'm not sure how I'd feel about waiting for a turn in Stealth next to a mob before attacking it.

Pretty sure not.

From the manual:
• The melee bonus is only gained if this is a regular, flanking, or controlled retreat attack.

Again, you can check the combat roll window.

[taptap]

Several questions are already answered better above, however:

1) Aah... the new smithing allows a lot of spoiling as well. You will instantly recognize the effect once you see a cloak of stealth for real.
2) Yes, all armour items are armour items.
3) 1 lb shortsword or a good (possible sharp artefact) dagger - with finesse + subtlety obviously, then you are not talking 1 or 2 criticals but 5, 6, 7 or more.
4) All throwing weapons are melee weapons as well. Whether a dagger throw can work as assassination is afaik untested, but it may work. Can't recall anybody testing it, great idea. Real stabbers were not that fashionable lately.
5) Only unbreakable weapons are artefacts, i.e. your Nargothrond spears for dragon killing may deplete rapidly in dragon fire.
6) Imo you should get the higher bonus, but no way to know exactly without sourcediving. I would recommend waiting unslowed in normal circumstances. (Opponents move further when you are "slow waiting".)
7) Get a real sword if you want strength bonus. (Or even better an axe. Or Momentum ability.) You can make a nice lamp out of the Mithril instead.
8) Read it once more, it should clear up eventually. But in short: Get disguise if you want to be stealthy.
9) Read Song of Lorien description and evasion for sleeping enemies (-5!). It really is your friend if you want to be an assassin. (Personally I rarely use Song of Silence with high perception stealthy chars with Listen ability.)