My stupid opinions: Sil 1.2

[bron]

A random assortment of opinions:

I don't like chasms. Most of the time I encounter them, they seem like an arbitrary obstacle. They don't add enough to the gameplay to justify their existence. Sil has stripped away a lot of cruft and produced a comparatively minimal game, with minimal commands and simple mechanics, while preserving depth and allowing widely varying playstyles. Chasms seem to me to be a step down the road to creeping-featurism.

On the other hand, I do like that some monsters are now given skills. Sort of a new feature, yes, but really just a new application of an existing feature. It makes certain monsters more dangerous and gameplay more varied, without really introducing new concepts. Very nice. But orc warriors are too tough. You encounter enough of them, and early enough, that sooner of later one of them is going to manage to hit for a double critical and 20+ damage. And usually one such hit is enough. So I like the general concept, but this one particular instance is a bit too much.

I don't really know about the change to Song of Sharpness. The one really noticible effect for me is that I seem to be unable to dig out all three Silmarils unless I have two Sharp weapons (one for breaking). This kinda seems like maybe a good thing: you can still obtain the "normal" level of victory (1 Sil), but it makes it harder to obtain the higher victories. But it also kinda seems like a bad thing: in order to win big, you have to be lucky enough to find sharp weapons (or you have to be a Smith and make your own). And I dislike the notion that the RNG gets to have that big a say in how well I do, or that a particular type of equipment (or a particular playstyle) is a requirement.

Love the fixes to the Smithing menu. Everything seems to work great.

I still wish that there was some way to get "resist fear" as a Will skill. It seems like the most natural thing for Will to resist, yet you can only get it through equipment.

I don't really like that a Mattock of Belegost now also needs Strength 3 in order to break granite. It's enchanted after all; it seems like 2 should be enough. A horn of blasting doesn't need any strength to do the same.

[locus]

I wouldn't want orc warriors to lose their distinctive charge, it's interesting to try to deny it to them. But I agree they're a definite sharp bump in the difficulty curve as it stands. I'd sooner see their stats reduced (further?) than them lose their charge. Possibly their defensive stats could go down and become similar to those of an orc soldier so that it would be more feasible to kill them before their charge connects.

I agree with the concerns about chasms, and about difficulties digging out Sils without Song of Sharpness.

[debo]

Just out of curiousity -- how do you deny them the charge? When there are just a couple, you can try to move diagonally past them in the open, but when there are crowds of them it starts to get ridiculous even if you have flanking.

It's especially weird when they start exchanging places and chain-charging, that doesn't particularly mimic any realistic scenario imo. Maybe it could be nerfed so that orc warriors can't get their charge off if they traded spaces with another mob to do so.

Or -- maybe it already works that way! I can't even tell. What I would like to see is a visualization of when a warrior _can_ charge. Like, if he moved towards you on his last turn, he turns yellow or something, so that at least you know which one has the potential to splat you.

[locus]

Yeah, it's hard to deny the warriors their charge when there's a big group of them, but they don't show up in big groups until pretty late, at which point you should be able to handle whatever. Orc warriors are most dangerous when they first start showing up and you don't have enough skills and equipment, that's when you really need to avoid getting charged. And when they first show up you usually only face one at a time.

[debo]

Hmmn. I found them really nasty right around the orc captain / biggang unique phase (for edains especially), mostly because I couldn't tell when one was going to bigdamage me. Conversely, I found the early pairs pretty easy to deal with provided that I didn't get caught in corridors -- which was a refreshing counterpoint to how I usually have to fight in the early game

Edit: For the record, I'd like to see orc champions get some sort of "strength in adversity"-type ability, because that would fit them flavor-wise and they currently are quite underwhelming.

[locus]

Hmmn. I found them really nasty right around the orc captain / biggang unique phase (for edains especially), mostly because I couldn't tell when one was going to bigdamage me. Conversely, I found the early pairs pretty easy to deal with provided that I didn't get caught in corridors -- which was a refreshing counterpoint to how I usually have to fight in the early game

Well, I'm not quite masochistic enough to play edains, so that might explain our differing perspectives It does seem like the extra dex and con the elves get might make the difference in terms of when orc warriors become unthreatening.

[locus]

Edit: For the record, I'd like to see orc champions get some sort of "strength in adversity"-type ability, because that would fit them flavor-wise and they currently are quite underwhelming.

I agree with this suggestion, although I think it might be even less "legible" to the player than the orc warrior charge.

[absolutego]

Edit: For the record, I'd like to see orc champions get some sort of "strength in adversity"-type ability, because that would fit them flavor-wise and they currently are quite underwhelming.

you know what else is underwhelming? strength in adversity. when's the last time someone took it? which is a pity because it's one of the more original abilities in the will tree (which has a lot of boring resists like light, protection, clarity, poison resistance...)

i was wondering how to make this better a while ago... i think the 1 str-bonus at <67% health and the 2-str bonus at <33% could be enough to make me want to take it sometimes, but you lose the link with "hurt" states (100-75%, 75-50% etc). i'd handle it with a status light, but i don't want to look into how angband does that stuff.

[Patashu]

Why not make it +1 for <=75% +2 for <=50%? If you're <=50% hp and playing a roguelike smarting you're basically treating it like an 'almost dead' state already, so giving bonuses for HP values any lower than that is pretty irrelevant, whereas bonuses higher than that are interesting (will kick in as needed, but you don't start with them - you have to get bloodied first, a clear tradeoff)

[absolutego]

yeah, the <25% bonus simply doesn't work now (except on characters with ridiculous con, i imagine). that's another option. i'm not sure how it'd play, i'd have to try it out.

incidentally, this would be a cool ability to have on a cursed item, like treachery. maybe on treacherous paths? easy flavour.

[debo]

This is less deterministic, but strength in adversity could also trigger with some probability for a set # of turns whenever you're hit for e.g. 10-20% of your MaxHP in one shot. It could stack, too, so if you get hit for that much 3 times in a row, you could potentially get +3 whatevers

[half]

Conversely, I found the early pairs pretty easy to deal with provided that I didn't get caught in corridors -- which was a refreshing counterpoint to how I usually have to fight in the early game

Yes, this was a large part of the idea for them. I hadn't actually considered them coming in big groups as part of an escort.