[Sil] Do you clear levels?

[fph]

We all have read on the forum that clearing each and every level is considered bad practice in Angband by many.
I found out just recently on a past thread that in Sil preserve_mode is always off, so one risks losing artifacts by playing in this way. This is especially undesirable due to the tweaked artifact generation algorithm: not only do you miss that artifact, but the probability of finding further ones is lowered permanently.
Does this change your strategy? Do you always try to clear all levels in Sil before taking a stairway?

[Philip]

I clear more than I would normally, but I don't specifically try to complete the level, just explore as much as is practical.

[HallucinationMushroom]

In Sil, levels clear you.

[HallucinationMushroom]

I treat artifacts as nice if I find them, but don't worry too much about them. Because of the artifact algorithm, there isn't a set group of artifacts you can ever count on, or plan on, getting. There are different rarities, but no one artifact shows up for me.

I play durable things, so I tend to skip to 200, and then start mostly-exploring levels. If I clear a level, it's because I'm looking for consumables, which you can pretty much count on finding a few.

[taptap]

Yeah, the obsession with the artefact settings in a recent thread is completely over the top. I tend to go through the major part of each floor once. That is, if I have to flee upwards, I instantly go down again without looking at that floor (if I have treasure staff I may risk a charge to collect the most important stuff though). I tend to be fairly slow unless I play singers or fencers, but I also tend to repeat 950 ft. once at most as compensation.

I am not good with consumables. I always hoard them, but rarely use them efficiently and I am always in trouble with my inventory and throwing things away - I wouldn't know what to do if I find more stuff. I ditched artefacts in probably all my winning games, in my current game I just dropped Angrist, Gundor and Dagmor to keep Azaghal, Glend, Fingon and my +10 deathblade - and this is only the melee / armour department.

There are a few artefacts that I tend to find early if I find them at all, maybe confirmation bias but that is how it felt say with the Robe of Aredhel - there are others that resemble other weapons very much and are easily missed. Angrist without Loremaster is probably the most important, unlike other daggers it doesn't really stick out by weight / damage sides / modifiers or the Cloak of Luthien when you walk around with low light and avoid the apparent shadow monster.

[wobbly]

I tend to clear the 1st couple of levels dive for a bit, clear a few levels, then die unfortunately.

Are you sure you'll get more artifacts clearing levels? If you dive quicker your spending more time at a lower depth where a stronger artifact might be generated. I would of thought it would even out a little in practice.

[locus]

I have no familiarity with vanilla angband, having come from Crawl instead, where levels are persistent and so there is no real question about whether to clear them. Sil seems to push you in many ways not to clear levels, but the hidden penalty is that you miss out on more artifacts and forges that way, because they both scale with the number generated, not the number found. I still think the benefits of e.g. diving outweigh these costs, but I haven't done a thorough study.

[HugoVirtuoso]

In my own experience, I have a very strong tendency to clear levels in Sil, which is why I never have been to the Throne Room before ~28,000-30,000 turns.

[BlueFish]

We all have read on the forum that clearing each and every level is considered bad practice in Angband by many.
I found out just recently on a past thread that in Sil preserve_mode is always off, so one risks losing artifacts by playing in this way. This is especially undesirable due to the tweaked artifact generation algorithm: not only do you miss that artifact, but the probability of finding further ones is lowered permanently.
Does this change your strategy? Do you always try to clear all levels in Sil before taking a stairway?

There are a number of factors, but by far the most prevalent one is whether I'm chased off the level by monsters. It's not often my choice whether to explore a level fully.

At the beginning of the game, as a Smithing character, I'll generally fully explore 150' and 200' just to get the turncount up till the second forge has a large change to be generated on the next level. At that point I'll fully explore 250-300 until I find it.

Sometimes the location of the down stairs is a small consideration. If they're in a remote corner of the level, I'll sometimes choose to explore a smaller radius around the stairs rather than exploring the full level and having to re-trace my steps all the way back to them.

[BlueFish]

In my own experience, I have a very strong tendency to clear levels in Sil, which is why I never have been to the Throne Room before ~28,000-30,000 turns.

Whether or not I've been able to dive quickly, or clear levels, I always do the 900-950 circuit until my min depth is 1000. I really don't care about low turn counts, and playing that part of the game is a rare pleasure, considering how often my characters die before then.

[BlueFish]

Yeah, the obsession with the artefact settings in a recent thread is completely over the top.

I think the consensus was that it was an interesting and useful conversation. Certainly, nobody was "obsessed" with anything.

And lo and behold, here's another person who thinks about it and wants to discuss it. You can't deny that away and pretend it's irrelevant.

I am not good with consumables. I always hoard them, but rarely use them efficiently and I am always in trouble with my inventory and throwing things away - I wouldn't know what to do if I find more stuff. I ditched artefacts in probably all my winning games, in my current game I just dropped Angrist, Gundor and Dagmor to keep Azaghal, Glend, Fingon and my +10 deathblade - and this is only the melee / armour department.

You found a +10 deathblade? Wow!

[taptap]

I think the consensus was that it was an interesting and useful conversation. ... here's another person who thinks about it and wants to discuss it.

Yes, indeed.

Only the conclusion that it is good strategy to clear every floor because you might miss an artefact and still decrease your chance of finding another one is plain wrong. It is if at all a minor consideration, better / more drops / loot in the depth in general outweigh this by far, some ego items are at par or better than artefacts (enchanted Galvorn armour or Mithril corslets, high end shadow cloaks, sceptres / blades giving +3 to song for pacifists)! Admittedly, I tend to clear most floors as well, but I certainly don't believe this is best play.

[BlueFish]

I have no familiarity with vanilla angband, having come from Crawl instead, where levels are persistent and so there is no real question about whether to clear them. Sil seems to push you in many ways not to clear levels, but the hidden penalty is that you miss out on more artifacts and forges that way, because they both scale with the number generated, not the number found. I still think the benefits of e.g. diving outweigh these costs, but I haven't done a thorough study.

Regarding forges, they don't really scale with number generated. The game just keeps track of the number of turns since your last forge was generated, and eventually, after a few thousand turns, another one is forced to be generated. There's always a random chance that a forge will be generated before then, though.

[BlueFish]

Yes, indeed.

Only the conclusion that it is good strategy to clear every floor because you might miss an artefact and still decrease your chance of finding another one is plain wrong.

Nobody's come to that conclusion.

It is if at all a minor consideration

Pretty much all design considerations discussed in this forum are minor.

[wobbly]

Regarding forges, they don't really scale with number generated. The game just keeps track of the number of turns since your last forge was generated, and eventually, after a few thousand turns, another one is forced to be generated. There's always a random chance that a forge will be generated before then, though.

I was unaware of this one. Do you know the exact no. by any chance? This seems to me a bigger issue then the artifact settings in that if you know how many turns to the next guaranteed forge you know to clear that level where as if you don't there's a chance you dive past it & reset the counter.

Edit: Is it a sliding probability? If so it would be nice to know the chances to know when to slow diving & look for a forge & when to grab song of aule on a singer smith.