Sil: Do you like the Mewlip forgetting effect?

[half]

So the extent of the negative effect is governed by something completely external to the game, how good the player's memory happens to be, which seems rather counter to the spirit of roguelikes to me.

While I'm certainly open to removing or changing the effect (hence this thread!) I do find this to be a weak argument. The player's intellectual abilities are certainly relevant to the game and part of the spirit of roguelikes!

Also, the exact features of the map are far from a triviality. If you like, try hacking the game so that the temporary forgetting of the map due to Rage is permanent. The game is much harder. It is actually pretty interesting to try this. I find it enjoyable for a while, but I don't think I'd like to spend an hour playing that way.

It is interesting actually that I've never heard anyone complain about the temporary lack of access to the map with rage, or about hallucination, despite these being so similar to the Mewlip amnesia and the lack of ability to distinguish colour (and hence monster subtypes) with rage.

[half]

How about having amnesia temporarily disable your skills or something? Or a longer version of the temporary blackout that you get with herbs of rage?

I won't do the former, as it is not that I wanted an amnesia-themed ability and decided on this one, it was that I *like* the effect.

The latter is a possibility though. Would this alleviate people's concerns, or would they dislike it nearly as much?

[half]

Overall I find it's just a nuisance, although I find that amnesia traps are much more annoying than mewlips.

I'd completely forgotten about amnesia traps.

I'll definitely remove those.

[fph]

I'd completely forgotten about amnesia traps.

That's the point of them, isn't it?

[Starhawk]

I avoid it whenever possible, but as part of the game I adore it.

It's nice to have a monster-forced effect that actually DOESN'T KILL YOUR CHARACTER. Unlike pretty much everything else.

If you're going to alter the way the effect works, the bell should regenerate all the exits to the level -- i.e. the walls/doors/traps/everything stay known to the player.... but the stairs all move.

Or, you could try to figure out a way of un-ID'ing some items...

That said, are there actually people out there that use screenshots to circumvent this effect? Because if so, I heap my scorn upon them.

[MarvinPA]

It is interesting actually that I've never heard anyone complain about the temporary lack of access to the map with rage, or about hallucination, despite these being so similar to the Mewlip amnesia and the lack of ability to distinguish colour (and hence monster subtypes) with rage.

I consider the rage effect to be the same as the other sources of maprot (and have removed it too), although certainly it's slightly less annoying than other sources since you're likely to just be staying still and hitting things while it's active. clouded and I did also mention hallucination and rage recolouring in the other thread - they are definitely similar cases where you're very likely to know some basic information for certain but the game hides it from you anyway, although unlike maprot they do have some chance of having real gameplay effects, when new monsters come into view for example.

[HallucinationMushroom]

Also, the exact features of the map are far from a triviality. If you like, try hacking the game so that the temporary forgetting of the map due to Rage is permanent. The game is much harder. It is actually pretty interesting to try this. I find it enjoyable for a while, but I don't think I'd like to spend an hour playing that way.

This sounds fun! Or, maybe not, but I would like to try this perma see-only-what-you-see variation. I'm sure it's nauseating, but it would be more immersive to constantly get turned around in the mazes of menace, to no not remember exactly where the safe escape is, to be afraid and running and unsure. Was it left, or right? I'm a pretty big fan of not-knowing, since I usually don't know anyway. Coupled with my poor memory, roguelikes have lasted me longer than most, I imagine.

Where would I even start to make the game do this? Keep in mind, I know less than nothing about how anything works. Which also helps with my not-knowing.

[BlueFish]

I suspect the reaction to the mewlip effect would be categorically opposed if it was more common. But it never happens other than that one monster which appears at 300' or so, so people just deal with it. But I am hard pressed to justify it as enhancing the game experience.

[wobbly]

I like it, but then again I don't try to memorize the map or take screenshots first, so for me it does exactly what it should. I'll normally have a pretty good idea where the stairs are but not exactly how the level's laid out.