Sil: What are the best abilities, besides Songs of Sharpness?

[HugoVirtuoso]

Time for a topic on the best abilities in Sil, not counting Songs of Sharpness, which I'm sure is on everyone's list...

1) Charge - The damage done is calculated as +3 STR and +3 DEX. Does good damage, and even better with higher dice weapons + Momentum (occasionally, depending on weapon)

2) Momentum - Really good when using heavier Bastard Swords combined with Charge. Helps to make the most of lighter big dice weapons at higher STR...take a 5.0lb Bastard Sword, for example.

3) Sprinting - essential for most of my games. While some players rarely take this, I cannot live without this in almost all of my Sil pursuits. Though it takes time to kick in, it has helped me to run from cat warriors, greater werewolves, and Troll Guards. Sometimes, I use Sprinting as a hit-and-run tactic against Giants, and it works.

4) Critical Resistance - Essential for the Berserk playstyle which doesn't emphasize much on stealth. Helps in late game (when my Evasion is not high enough) to protect me from getting critically hit by cat warriors, greater werewolves, Troll Guards, and the like.

5) Crowd Fighting - Similar to #4, not to mention that I tend to get surrounded *A LOT*.

Honorable mentions - Opportunist and Keen Senses

[taptap]

Subtlety + Flanking (esp. with ZoC + Opportunist)
Charge
Inner Light - nothing special but I always take it
Crowd Fighting
Loremaster
Rauko-Bane
Song of Slaying - in fact I would say it is sometimes a little overpowered.

For archers:
Listen (with high perception) for the sheer awesomeness of blind archery
Focus

[WildKhaine]

I don't know if I'd call them the best but the abilities I normally take on most of my runs these days are: ZoC, Crowd Fighting, Flanking, Controlled Retreat, Opportunist, and Loremaster. Sometimes Whirlwind Attack, Herbs of Rage might be better but I really do like the ability. I love melee and with those you can be a nice whirlwind of death Lots of fun.

Rapid Attack/Two-Weapon Fighting and Riposte are also nice depending on your build/finds.

[HallucinationMushroom]

Flame strike.

Edit: I meant to say, Exchange Places. It's so good I try not to take it.

[taptap]

I changed my opinion:

Subtlety + Flanking

Majesty + Song of Elbereth

Song of Lorien

Listen

[half]

I changed my opinion:

Subtlety + Flanking

Majesty + Song of Elbereth

Song of Lorien

Listen

These are all pretty interesting. I think that Song of Lorien and Listen are typically undervalued (i.e. they are amazingly powerful game-changers and people merely think they are pretty good). I haven't really tried Majesty or Song of Elbereth, but they are not normally thought to be all that good. I've read you recent character sheet though and can see where you are coming from.

Subtlety is definitely thought to be great. Flanking seems to be thought to be good but not great by most players. What are you thinking of with this combination? Are you implicitly including Dodging too? (It is possible to get Flanking without Dodging via an artefact).

[taptap]

These are all pretty interesting. I think that Song of Lorien and Listen are typically undervalued (i.e. they are amazingly powerful game-changers and people merely think they are pretty good). I haven't really tried Majesty or Song of Elbereth, but they are not normally thought to be all that good. I've read you recent character sheet though and can see where you are coming from.

Subtlety is definitely thought to be great. Flanking seems to be thought to be good but not great by most players. What are you thinking of with this combination? Are you implicitly including Dodging too? (It is possible to get Flanking without Dodging via an artefact).

I found the catskin in my last two games! Flanking is useful like that, but it really shines with all the combinations in a real melee character, but probably depends on the kind of build you like. If you are hoarding bonus evasion (w/ dodging) and bonus attacks (w/ zoc) and speed (w/ sprinting), it is brilliant. For melee builds I think it is a game changer similar to polearm/controlled retreat/knockback, not necessarily in power, there are other great abilities, but you start to move in a completely different way. (It is much more exciting than the somewhat grindy play I fell into with artistry and good melee without abilities builds.)

Afaik nobody really experimented with majesty / intimidation except as an escape. For Egrent it was more for crowd control and keeping distance especially from cats, wolves and otherwise tough troll guards. No listen but high light just fitted nicely into the theme (and helped a lot w/ trolls bringing them into Elbereth range and especially vampires). I had 8 light before cutting a Silmaril and the maximum for show effects (after killing Carcharoth) was 15. It works against a much more limited range of opponents than stealth or Lorien (even worm masses can sleep) but on the other hand you can manipulate their movement instead of making them sleep on top of the jewelled chest.

[half]

For melee builds I think it is a game changer similar to polearm/controlled retreat/knockback, not necessarily in power, there are other great abilities, but you start to move in a completely different way. (It is much more exciting than the somewhat grindy play I fell into with artistry and good melee without abilities builds.)

I'm still interested in digging a bit deeper on this one. I agree that good play with Flanking feels very different from good play without it. It is one thing to just be moving back and forth while in melee with a single foe (getting the [+3] from Dodging, basically). It is another thing to be fighting two smart foes in a room and moving such that you get an attack on one of them each round, but at most one of them attacks you. This lets you have the power of one-on-one combat against two foes, and the [+3] from being in a room, and the flexibility for retreat from being in a room. Three foes is also manageable, but I'm not sure how many of them get to attack you each turn.

With Sprinting, you can also be fast. At best this would be an additional +50% damage output, but realistically I can't manage to keep a up a movement pattern that lets me be fast while also doing optimal combat positioning. It is still an advantage though.

Flanking + Sprinting + Charge is also its own kind of advantage, as you can pull off a charge while still keeping the Sprint.

If you add Knock Back, there are some other crazy things to do. Some patterns let you get off an attack each normal-speed round against a single opponent who never gets a turn (so long as your attacks connect and the Knock Back triggers...).

I see how it goes well with high evasion (by allowing Dodging while attacking and getting very high evasion), and how it goes well with Riposte (since this converts the very high evasion to attack power). I don't really see how something like ZoC or Subtlety goes well with it though.

[mnoqy]

Flanking goes excellently with ZoC since when you move around, bands will often reorganize themselves to try and keep up with and surround you; that is, with an appropriate Flanking move, a bunch of monsters end up walking through your zone of control, while never being able to completely surround or get very many attacks in.

[taptap]

Subtlety with cruel blow does help zone of control and cruel blow helps in crowd control as well (I put wrath on an artefact with my only char to win that way just to make them not flee so fast!). Even without Zone of Control you often get your flanking hit while your opponent just tries to keep up with you or make place for the rest of his pack / group.

Combining flanking, sprinting and charge never occured to me. Charge and knockback are great, but I never combined them with flanking. Maybe partly roleplaying but I like light weapon - high evasion or heavy weapon - high protection combinations.

Sprinting: It also removes a lot of danger from flanking. You are much less likely to be surrounded which is of course the biggest danger especially against quick foes such as wargs.

[half]

Thanks for the answers mnoqy and taptap. That makes more sense now, especially the ZoC and flanking.

taptap: do try the flanking/charge/sprinting thing. Lots of fun.

[WaveMotion]

There isn't any direct synergy between flanking and subtlety, but if you do the riposte combo you mentioned it can be good to take subtlety since riposte works better the lighter the weapon.