Sil: first win

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  • BlueFish
    Swordsman
    • Aug 2011
    • 414

    Sil: first win

    Easy mode. Which wasn't so easy.

    I spent 10s of games trying a stabber. I got one going once, but he was one of my first characters and I died to some stupidity that was lost to the mists of time. He found a +4 deathblade, without knowing what a great find that was. He was fun. he made me wish I save scummed, just to have a chance to play him again.

    That was when I was doing the Smithing affinity high elf, with the 0/2/2/2 starting stats. I don't get smithing, it takes save scumming to understand, or at least forum scumming. So that wasn't helpful.

    The 0/2/2/2 starts with the stabber goal never worked for me. So at some point I just devolved to the simplest basher character, who should be able to win (how could they not be able?) and should be strongest in start-game.

    Eventually I learned the goodness of Con so I started with the high elf with Will affinity and 0/1/3/2 (if memory serves).

    Starting with that guy lowered my starting dex from 5 to 3, and raised my starting Con to 6. Now we're talking. Dex ain't that important in late game, while con certainly is. And you can never replace starting Con as easily as you can replace starting Dex.

    Starting skills were 3 melee and 3 evasion. Then save 500 exp to get 7 perception and lore master. Just because easy race start allows for that and damn is it fun and simplifying to have everything identified. Hard races mean NOT investing in that early-game and instead investing in melee/evasion that you would have had otherwise through stats.

    First several hundred feet are always chancy with the teeming hordes of orcs (archers are the worst) but at some point you throw enough games at it to get past that part.

    I don't think there was any big find that made the difficulty curve flatten suddenly. Just gradual progression. Ability progression was sprinting -> power -> follow through -> opportunist, then a bunch of other stuff that wasn't as important. Eventually I took Exchange Places with hoarded experience, as I often find I need. It's the most "easy mode" skill in the game probably, but I don't like to take it before I need it.

    I ended up with 22 melee, 15 evasion, 12 will, 10 perception, and 11 song. I had strength and con from melee and will trees. I had artifact armor that gave 1 con and the artifact amulet too. With con potion i had about 150 hp. I had all the armor bonus abilities too and ended up with about 8-27 protection, if memory serves. I found Glamdring which is +2 melee and +2 evasion with slay of orc, troll, dragon, and rauk. That may have been my best find.

    It became easy mode. I was surprised I was unable to kill Morgoth. Maybe I could have, but you know I just wanted to win. I took sharpness song so the silmaril wasn't hard to pry out. I ran out with it. The top level was pretty fun. Made me feel powerful with all the puds to wade through. Nice level design there.

    Thanks for the great well thought out game, half and scatha. It's a very impressive effort.
  • BlueFish
    Swordsman
    • Aug 2011
    • 414

    #2
    Oh, I should mention Song of Sharpness. That was a pretty big flattening of the difficulty curve too. Easy to take it for granted when you turn it on before every battle with a troll guard or an ancient serpent but without it you'd appreciate it real quick.

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    • Starhawk
      Adept
      • Sep 2010
      • 246

      #3
      Oh, I am JEALOUS, but well done.

      Comment

      • BlueFish
        Swordsman
        • Aug 2011
        • 414

        #4
        Originally posted by Starhawk
        Oh, I am JEALOUS, but well done.
        Thanks Starhawk!

        Anybody know if there's a way to protect yourself from falling into a pit while fighting Morgoth? That almost killed me in the throne room. I couldn't figure out why all my melee rolls were halved, and then I couldn't get out of the pit because I was surrounded.

        Comment

        • Patashu
          Knight
          • Jan 2008
          • 528

          #5
          You are considered to be in a pit or in a web if you occupy the tile it is on - you cannot 'dodge' a pit or a web. There is also no levitation in this game. Evasion will help you climb out of pits (evasion vs 15 for normal, 20 for spiked according to the manual), but it won't do anything to make them not exist in the first place.
          My Chiptune music, made in Famitracker: http://soundcloud.com/patashu

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          • Scatha
            Swordsman
            • Jan 2012
            • 414

            #6
            While pits can't normally be disarmed, a powerful enough Freedom effect (from the staff with high Will or the song with high Song) can remove them altogether.

            Comment

            • taptap
              Knight
              • Jan 2013
              • 710

              #7
              Originally posted by Scatha
              While pits can't normally be disarmed, a powerful enough Freedom effect (from the staff with high Will or the song with high Song) can remove them altogether.
              Interesting. Is this true for webs as well?

              Comment

              • Scatha
                Swordsman
                • Jan 2012
                • 414

                #8
                Originally posted by taptap
                Interesting. Is this true for webs as well?
                Yes. I often carry a staff of freedom with low strength characters for just this reason.

                Webs you can also break free of while staying on the same square (use , or ctrl-5 to interact with your square; it's a strength check, same as for trying to break free normally). We can do this for webs but not pits because when you escape a web the web is gone, but when you escape a pit it's still there.

                Comment

                • taptap
                  Knight
                  • Jan 2013
                  • 710

                  #9
                  Originally posted by Scatha
                  Yes. I often carry a staff of freedom with low strength characters for just this reason.

                  Webs you can also break free of while staying on the same square (use , or ctrl-5 to interact with your square; it's a strength check, same as for trying to break free normally). We can do this for webs but not pits because when you escape a web the web is gone, but when you escape a pit it's still there.
                  Suddenly Song of Freedom for low-strength, low-stealth characters looks much more attractive. I lost loads of chars while webbed.

                  @Bluefish: I find it interesting that you value CON so high. I played loads of characters with 4 or 5 CON, my only winner (archer) had only 3, however.

                  Comment

                  • debo
                    Veteran
                    • Oct 2011
                    • 2402

                    #10
                    Staves of freedom are really quite handy. My only issue is that I usually find them early, and then they get burned up by the time I'm deep enough to really need them
                    Glaurung, Father of the Dragons says, 'You cannot avoid the ballyhack.'

                    Comment

                    • BlueFish
                      Swordsman
                      • Aug 2011
                      • 414

                      #11
                      Originally posted by taptap
                      Suddenly Song of Freedom for low-strength, low-stealth characters looks much more attractive. I lost loads of chars while webbed.

                      @Bluefish: I find it interesting that you value CON so high. I played loads of characters with 4 or 5 CON, my only winner (archer) had only 3, however.
                      Seems like by late game, most characters would trade a point of dex for a point of con. The dex can be effectively "rebought" by buying the skill points your character needs. But con can't be replaced with experience, other than the one point from the Will tree.

                      Comment

                      • BlueFish
                        Swordsman
                        • Aug 2011
                        • 414

                        #12
                        Originally posted by Scatha
                        Yes. I often carry a staff of freedom with low strength characters for just this reason.

                        Webs you can also break free of while staying on the same square (use , or ctrl-5 to interact with your square; it's a strength check, same as for trying to break free normally). We can do this for webs but not pits because when you escape a web the web is gone, but when you escape a pit it's still there.
                        I'm not sure how any of this works, but is a break-web check made if you're stuck and you attack an adjacent enemy?

                        In a recent game I stepped into a web and was immediately blinded by its shadow spider owner. I had no protection from blindness or true seeing potions so the world got dark. My attack rolls were all halved and I knew I needed to break free from the web, but I didn't know the action I needed to take to do that. And I doubt it's documented. I kept attacking the adjacent shadow spider (or at least I assumed that's what I was attacking), hoping that would trigger the "break free from web" check. I even drank a pot of strength. But I never broke free. If I had known there was this "break free from web" special key, I'd have used that of course. But no player can ever know that. Mostly breaking free from webs is a matter of walking away from them, but in teh case a monster is on that square, the break free check is not made.

                        A clear in-game documentation of what needs to be done would be good, but failing that, maybe attacks can include a "break free from web" check?

                        Comment

                        • HugoVirtuoso
                          Veteran
                          • Jan 2012
                          • 1237

                          #13
                          Originally posted by Scatha
                          While pits can't normally be disarmed, a powerful enough Freedom effect (from the staff with high Will or the song with high Song) can remove them altogether.
                          Good to know...this applies to Morgoth-made pits too?
                          My best try at PosChengband 7.0.0's nightmare-mode on Angband.live:
                          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rwAR0WOphUA

                          If I'm offline I'm probably in the middle of maintaining Gentoo or something-Linux or other.

                          As of February 18th, 2022, my YouTube username is MidgardVirtuoso

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