[sil] Finally, I reached the throne room

[debo]

The crown already illuminates until it loses all of its silmarils, I think.

[Philip]

Actually, then it would shine white, but I think that would maybe be enough.

[BlueFish]

Maybe it is a little rusty? I bet Morgoth doesn't spend a lot of time polishing his armor.

The red could be the shining silmarils? Or does the crown extinguish them?

[Pete Mack]

I'd be against making the Iron Crown red as in Sil we've tried to make items the colours they really are.

Maybe it is a little rusty? I bet Morgoth doesn't spend a lot of time polishing his armor.

[half]

Since we are at it, I do not like particularly that the throne room kinda requires spoilers which are (AFAIK) only found on the forums.

Maybe something could be added to the manual? Or as in-game hints? For instance, special-coloured, more evident messages on what to do when you topple the crown off M's head, or suggesting to run away once you have a silmaril. Another easy change would be changing the color of the crown to a very visible bright red.

I *think* the messages are fairly evident already. It is definitely unclear what to do when you enter the level (which I like as it adds a sense of mystery and difference to other parts of the game). Then if you put Morgoth to sleep you get a message about his crown falling off and it appears on the ground. If you hit Morgoth for 10 or more damage, you get a message saying his crown is knocked off balance and if you do this again, it falls off, so simply trying to fight him (the most obvious thing) will work.

Once the crown is off, if you walk over it, it suggests trying to cut a Silmaril by pressing (k).

I'd be against making the Iron Crown red as in Sil we've tried to make items the colours they really are, but I can see that one could make it flash briefly when it falls off, or make the crown related messages beep like the low hitpoint warnings, or in a different text colour etc. This is probably a good idea, but I *think* we have all the right text messages needed at the moment if only people noticed them.

(Also Morgoth's monster description mentions the crown and how you need to get to it somehow).

[andrey]

Thanks for the pointer and the advice about Angrist. I tried to kill silent watcher with it, but was too afraid (The PC, not me )

The link you gave is also very helpful

[fph]

Since we are at it, I do not like particularly that the throne room kinda requires spoilers which are (AFAIK) only found on the forums.

Maybe something could be added to the manual? Or as in-game hints? For instance, special-coloured, more evident messages on what to do when you topple the crown off M's head, or suggesting to run away once you have a silmaril. Another easy change would be changing the color of the crown to a very visible bright red.

[HallucinationMushroom]

You can sing the crown off of Morgoth's head, but as I note you don't like singing, this is sort of a moot point. You also had Angrist, which ignores armor, so you get an automatic success... well, with your first Silmaril, at least... but that's another story...

I've never won with stealth or singing or archery, but, I'm pretty sure you can just knock off the crown with arrow shots. Perhaps you did this and didn't know what to look for... in the heat of the throne room, and not expecting a special instance or message, it might be easy to miss. I had a lot of problems with my first throne room characters because I was willful in not seeking spoilers, and not assuming the crown was on his head. I also thought that it might be in a chest, among other odd ideas. I needed 3, or 4 attempts? One of those characters was ridiculously strong too. Anyway, you are in good, or bad, company.

Edit: You can see me wrestling with this same topic, here. Pretty much complete throne spoilers contained if you're worried about spoilage.

http://angband.oook.cz/ladder-show.php?id=12326

[andrey]

Thanks for the advice.
Is it possible to put him off-balance with archery? Because I shot him like crazy, and nothing helped . Maybe this was my mistake.

Is it possible to steal a silmaril by stealth only?

[fph]

If you don't mind the spoilers, read on.



When you hit Morgoth, there is a chance that he goes "go off balance" and drops his iron crown on the floor. Go on the square where it is, and use the key 'k' to break free a Silmaril with your weapon. This is handled like a melee attack; the Silmaril has a high protection score (8d4 IIRC?), so you will need a heavy weapon, a potion of strength, and/or Sharpness (from either a weapon that "cuts easily through armour" or the song). In many archery or stealth builds, it is common to take Song of Sharpness just for this task. An alternative method to tip the crown off is getting Morgoth to sleep, either with Song of Lorien or a staff of Slumber.

Once you have a silmaril, you can wear it as a light source. It's pretty much better than any other light source in the game. Now your task is climbing up the stairs back to 50' and then up again to escape the prisons of Angband. Morgoth will show up to haunt you every now and then during the ascension. There is no need to kill him, at any point; just avoid him and take the stairs. Try to avoid getting stuck in the pits created by his earthquake attacks; you get penalties for fighting in one. It could be useful to take Exchange Places, if you have XP to spare: you won't need them for anything else at this point. When you reach 0', there is another fixed level, rather uninteresting if compared to Morgoth's hall at 1000'. You have to reach the bottom side of the map to escape and finally win.

There are several challenge options, meant for advanced players:
* take more than one Sil. There are 3 overall. Breaking free more than one will result in penalties: your weapon will break when prying them free, and if you have all three you will get penalties on every dice roll (so pretty much on everything) on the way up.
* take the crown with you, without breaking free any Silmaril. You need a rather large strength score (7 IIRC) to be able to carry it.
* kill mr. M. Easier said than done, he has tons of HP and hits hard. Yet, someone on this forum managed to obliterate him with a shovel...

Another useful piece of information is that you have the first strike when you reach 1000'. The monsters will wake up and notice you, but they won't attack until you deal the first blow (or shot; IIRC also digging counts). When you first try to attack a monster, the game will prompt for confirmation.

Good luck next time!

[andrey]

Yep, I mapped it! Had a staff of "mapping". Saved HTML screenshot for future generations
Though I didn't understand what was I supposed to do. Is the crown hidden in one of the rooms? Or do I have to kill Morgoth?

[HallucinationMushroom]

Did you actually get a chance to map the throne room? The throne room experience is worth the death in my opinion, but also nabbing a map is great too since the throne room is always the same layout. I'm amazed at players who win on their first throne room visit.

[andrey]

That is the first time that I reach level 1000.

Here is my dump:

http://angband.oook.cz/ladder-show.php?id=14237

I even had a staff that mapped everything for me, but I was stupid and attacked a spider. Next thing, all hell broke loose, and I found myself shooting with zero range at Morgoths servants, and then him, which hardly scratched him

Comments are welcome