[sil] Request for better handling of throwing weapons

[andrey]

Currently Sil has among the best archery key binding in all rogue-likes that I know.

1. Is it possible to do some kind of virtual quiver for throwing weapons, and then using the same button "t" to throw?

2. What skill is used for throwing weapons roll? (Melee, Archery? ) Can it be improved at all, beside the throwing weapons mastery ability?

[clouded]

The easiest way to use throwing weapons is to inscribe them with @t0 and keymap something to "\s\s\st0f", this will throw your inscribed weapons at the closest thing. You could drop the "f" from that and it would act similarly to bow/arrows, simply selecting the weapons and letting you target.

The main annoyance with this is that the game sorts your throwing weapons weakest first, so if you have a stack of daggers and a stack of throwing axes all inscribed @t0, it will go through all of the daggers first, instead of starting with the axes.

It's based on melee. When you throw something, take a look at your combat log window and compare to the stats you have on the character screen. Anything that gives you accuracy will improve your throwing.

[debo]

Also, I believe finesse and power, and (most importantly) momentum will affect your throwing criticals / damage sides, which is super handy.

[fph]

Wow, interesting. Has anyone ever played won, or got close to winning, with a pure thrower? With all these bonuses and the +5 from throwing mastery, getting real criticals out of them seems kinda viable.

[andrey]

Well I managed to find the macro screen ($)
But how to do the inscribing?

[debo]

Wow, interesting. Has anyone ever played won, or got close to winning, with a pure thrower? With all these bonuses and the +5 from throwing mastery, getting real criticals out of them seems kinda viable.

Throwing is good, but it's strictly inferior to archery -- especially now in 1.1.x series. in previous versions, throwing weapons got 1 damage side per 0.5lbs of weight (assuming you had the str for it), rather than 1 side per 1lb. Basically, you got momentum for free on throwing weapons, but now you have to buy it.

The damage die used to be a bit more distinct than they are now -- for example, I think throwing axes used to be the only ranged weapon which had more than 1 damage die. Now the bows progress from light to heavy by adding a die each time (shortbows 1d7, longbows 2d5, dragon horn 3dx, etc.), and their damage _sides_ are almost universally better.

Enemies (or PCs) who are shot at with arrows get a 50% evasion penalty. Throwing weapons are treated exactly like melee weapons, so you roll against their full evasion.

Finally, inventory management for throwing is a pain. Throwing weapons of the same type but of different damage sides and melee bonuses won't stack. They're also heavy as shit if you want to carry a lot of them.

Throwing weapons are a fantastic supplement to high-melee characters who eschew archery -- especially dwarves, since throwing axes are really good, they get a +1 to axes, and they're relatively terrible at archery. I've tried throwing specialists before and just generally been frustrated by the whole thing. I'm sure it's doable -- especially if you find some good supporting artefacts like e.g. the gloves of Brethil. I think it's still an open challenge that no one has succeeded at, though.

Well I managed to find the macro screen ($)
But how to do the inscribing?

To inscribe a weapon, use the '{' key. Then type @t[x], where [x] is the index you want to assign your weapon. If you give daggers @t1, later typing 't1f' will throw that set of daggers at your enemy.

[andrey]

Here is my first try to do a thrower. I tried to push melee skill to the extreme, to have a good roll on throwing weapons. Around 600ft I became weak, and had to escape almost every single fight, until a shadow spider caught me, blinded me and killed me.

http://angband.oook.cz/ladder-show.php?id=14233

[debo]

andrey, you probably want to embed your dumps in [ CODE ][ /CODE ] tags (Use the # button in the WYSIWYG editor) rather than the Quote tags, since CODE preserves spacing. Alternately, you can upload to ladder. [Edit: Looks like you fixed this as I was writing ]

Good run -- this is generally the depth where I get shut down too Just a note, the range of your throwing weapons increases with strength, so I might knock off a point of Con and add a point of Str.

Also topical for this dump, breaking out of a web requires a strength check, so if you ever get stuck in this situation again and you have a !Str sitting around, don't be afraid to use it!

[debo]

How much were you actually throwing? I usually pick Feanor and take Weaponsmith so that I can forge some early throwing axes.

[andrey]

Thanks for the advice on strength. About throwing - I threw all the time, even at point blank, unless I had to beat a spider or werewolf - for which I had the longsword of Doriath. You can see that I had 2 throwing axes of Gondolin, which helped me killing some orcs and trolls. Annoyingly, both Boldog and Orcobal flew down the stairs. (M%^& F@#$$!)

My biggest achievement was so far reaching 900FT. That was a combination of finding Orcrist and a lot of stealth in later stages.

[HallucinationMushroom]

Thread necro! Um, I went looking for information about throwing and this seemed like the most relevant thread with good information. Any further advice on making a throwing master welcome! I've been tinkering with focus/concentration, daggers/spears, mainly just for fun. No 'serious' runs yet.

My main questions I wanted to ask before I found this thread were:
Is it possible to throw twice in one round? - No, right?
Is cruel blow possible with thrown weapons - I'm pretty sure this answer is 'no' judging by the manual.

[Infinitum]

Is the assassination bonus added? Again, the manual isn't all clear on what constitutes a "normal" melee attack on skimming (since throwing is treated as one). Guessing no.

Also, being able to equip throwing weapons to the quiver slots really is a good idea that should be implemented. Maybe add javelins over spear stacks and removing the option to hew ordianry melee weapons altogether (the feature is neat but largely unused anyway). Would streamline inventory management and the interface a bit.

[wobbly]

Quick test with a feanor.

No assasination bonus.
Several !!s & !s against wolves & orcs. no cruel blow. So probably not.
Daggers are swords as far as elves are concerned.

Random piece of advice: Gondolin spears are only 11 smithing pts.

[taptap]

Currently playing a char that throws more than usually (i.e. a dwarf).

One thing I experimented with is making 2lb spears for throwing. Easy, relatively cheap and as good as finesse. Similarly axes may benefit from a slight increase in weight to get 2 pt. strength bonus out of them.