Low Turncount Speedrun-- 2,374

[MicroChasm]

I wanted to share this run with everyone, since it took a lot of work to achieve. I've been attempting low turncount speedruns of Sil for some months now, and it took hundreds and hundreds of runs to get this.

http://angband.oook.cz/ladder-show.php?id=24535

It's a lot of fun to play the game this way. You are always on edge. The runs are much shorter than usual, especially because most of them die in the early game. There is quite a lot of rng involved, mostly around where stairs generate, whether monsters see you, whether you get a Staff of Slumber, and whether or not you can find some potions and staves to get out of tricky situations. I play these runs in a very risky way, mostly just assuming that nothing will see me, and then running away when they do.
My 2,374 turns could definitely be beaten—I don’t think I was completely optimal in my movement, and the stair generation could always be better.
I'd be happy to outline the strategy for these runs if anyone is interested. The one caveat is that it is played in the beta branch of course, I will have to try again on the next full release.

[ster]

What's the point when you will never get one of these onto the first page of the ladder? Quirk's player vs developer mentality killed the game.

[MicroChasm]

What's the point when you will never get one of these onto the first page of the ladder? Quirk's player vs developer mentality killed the game.

Well, I’m personally very thankful that Quirk puts in time and effort to continue to improve his fork. In my experience he takes the design very seriously. I’m especially thankful for the time and effort that it has taken to implement my tileset. I feel that you have a very specific thought in mind that I’m not privy to. Even so, your comment feels more combative than seems appropriate in this context.

As far as the ladder goes, while it orders by score by default, I noticed that if you click on the word Score in the menu header it orders games by XP, lowest to highest. In that view, my win does show up at the top. It’s odd behavior for sure. In the end, I did this run just because I was having fun with the idea of it.

It’s hard to say what would be the ideal criteria is for the best game in Sil. Highest XP would favor overly long games. Smallest turncount or lowest XP would favor the type of game that I did, which was pretty degenerate behavior. I spent most of the game going up and down staircases over and over until they collapsed. Not the kind of game that you necessarily want to encourage people to play. I don’t know how other roguelikes handle the idea of score honestly.

[Pete Mack]

There is one win with crazy low turncount , where SweetV killed M and got all three silmarilions. I assume that's when Gwarl nerfed eartquakes...

[MicroChasm]

There is one win with crazy low turncount , where SweetV killed M and got all three silmarilions. I assume that's when Gwarl nerfed eartquakes...

I think the run you are referring to is this one, is that right?

http://angband.oook.cz/ladder-show.php?id=23394

I looked through the low turncount runs on the ladder when I was working on my own run, and I remembered the specifics of this one.

Edit: I didn't copy the whole url on the initial post

[MicroChasm]

I think the run you are referring to is this one, is that right?

angband.oook.cz/ladder-show.php?id=23394

I looked through the low turncount runs on the ladder when I was working on my own run, and I remembered the specifics of this one.

Well now I’m second guessing myself, maybe it was this one?

http://angband.oook.cz/ladder-show.php?id=23354

Both are low turncount, three silmarils and a morgy kill.

[HugoVirtuoso]

http://angband.oook.cz/ladder-show.php?id=23394

Check that out

[MicroChasm]

http://angband.oook.cz/ladder-show.php?id=23394

Check that out

That is one of the links I was intending to post above, but I didn't copy the whole url the first time. To be fair I was traveling at the time. I edited my post to include the correct url.

It's a very impressive run for sure. SweetVinegar has a lot of impressive runs on the ladder. However, I don't feel that the run is comparable with mine 1:1, since SweetVinegar was doing the 50,000 XP challenge. I was just thinking today that the next challenge for myself might be to attempt 50,000 XP challenge speedruns.

[MicroChasm]

Doing the 50,000XP Challenge is way more consistent than doing normal runs. It's good fun as well. I completed a speedrun today using the challenge at 1,427 turns.

http://angband.oook.cz/ladder-show.php?id=24546

[Infinitum]

NO U

On a more serious note, this format wasn't as awful as I thought it'd be. Got quite a few characters splattered by V and C due to insufficient song/stealth until I remembered Silence and Woven Themes being a thing.

Dropping stealth slightly and working in Power for easier Sil cutting might be worth it. I took the circumtuitous route in the throneroom, but the direct approach should be possible (worst case scenario you'd need a miruvor potion). With lucky stairs/chasms after crumbling I think a sub 1k run should be achievable for anyone willing to grind it out.

EDIT: Looking at my build right now, one could drop one point of stealth and the will and have just enough points to work in alchemy and power. Hmm.

EDIT: Yeah, felt slightly better. Down to 1197 turns now with some bad stair placement, sub 1k looks very doable should one wish to grind.

[MicroChasm]

Congrats! 1,197 is an excellent turncount. I didn't think anyone else was going to go for it, but I'm glad to have competition. It's interesting to see how you went about it. I like your build better-- I went into the 50,000 XP challenge using a modification of my other low-turncount build, which makes a lot of compromises in order to survive the early/mid-game. Yours is much more extreme.

Now, I wonder if sub-1,000 is indeed possible. We won't know until someone does it I suppose...

[Infinitum]

Not needing a slumber staff does make it easier to grind, although voice can be an issue on the ascent. Also so long as you don't stab Lorien is even more of a "nope" button than mastery is, so survivability is no issue at all really. 50k is fair and balanced indeed.

[Pete Mack]

What grinding? There isnt time for much in 1000 turns. And just look at his equipment.

[Estie]

I believe he means grinding games ?

[MicroChasm]

Et tu, Infinitum!

http://angband.oook.cz/ladder-show.php?id=24867&ok

946 turns this time. I tried your build initially and I think it is quite good. Getting to the throneroom is relatively consistent, but I had trouble with getting seen by Morgoth or not being able to get him to sleep. I iterated and tweaked the build many times, but in the end, I decided to go back to no-Lorien, since I think it's more fun. When you have to grind out attempts it's important to have fun.

The turns could definitely be optimized with better RNG on stair generation, and just more careful movement.