A suggestion appears out of nowhere!

[gglibertine]

My Dwarf Paladin was just eyeing up a copy of Ethereal Openings in the Black Market, but I haven't got enough gold to buy it. Then I thought, "It would be cool if I could put it on layaway!"

Which led me to think about how that might work in the game. Set a minimum percentage of the price for a down payment. You make the down payment and that item remains in the shop; however, you have a limited number of turns to come back and make another payment. If you don't get back in time, or if you don't have enough gold when you get back, the item vanishes from the shop.

You could even add interest by having the price rise a little more each time you return to make a payment. You could theoretically make the down payment a really minimal amount via game preferences, but the more times you come back to make a small payment, the more the final price of the item rises, so you have to use good judgment to avoid wasting money on things you have no reasonable chance of being able to find enough treasure in time to pay off.

Just a random thought. I have no idea whether anybody else would find this even remotely amusing, but I figured it couldn't hurt to throw it out there.

[OmniNegro]

Some variants have this already. If the developers on Angband want this, they can literally steal the code from one of the many variants that have it already.

In particular, Composband and Frogcomposband have this. But they use a different language for the code. (Similar, but there are probably problems getting the code to work without some tweaking.)

Still, it would not be difficult for any competent programmer. I just doubt they want this feature. Sorry.

[gglibertine]

Still, it would not be difficult for any competent programmer. I just doubt they want this feature. Sorry.

Well, I guess you showed me. What you showed me is perhaps not what you intended to show me, but hey, knowledge is power.

[AnonymousHero]

Well, there's a sort-of-precedent in FAAngband in that you could "order" items, but...

My personal opinion: The whole shopping thing is just a distraction from playing the game. Don't get me wrong, it can offer a little bit of excitement, but I think the game design should strive to avoid shopping even being a thing. (Unless shopping is a central tenet of the game's design, of course.)

[Derakon]

I think the game design should strive to avoid shopping even being a thing. (Unless shopping is a central tenet of the game's design, of course.)

At this point IMO the primary purpose of the town is to remove the incentive players might otherwise have to scum "safe" dungeon levels for consumables. The Black Market is therefore kind of an outlier and/or vestige of earlier iterations of the game design, but I guess not having it would mean that money is even more pointless than it currently is. Plus of course the players that enjoy shopping would not appreciate its removal.

[Pete Mack]

Without the town, it's be very hard to get started in the game. There are three parts of the town: the black market, the regular stores, and home. Even ironman would be affected without the early stack of PD and CLW, as well as such niceties as a weapon of the correct weight and PB2 for priests and paladins. The black market just adds a little nice randomness, providing the occasional stack of !Speed or ?Tele level. Or perhaps a ring of res poison, or a wand of TO. I dont think any obsessing about it will improve the game, though.

[PowerWyrm]

In PWMAngband you can order items from the Expensive (x15 price) Black Market. Useful for casters (dungeon books) or simply to get deep consumables if you lack them for the endgame. This also works for items already in stock (they get marked and don't disappear from stock until bought).

[Gwarl]

At this point IMO the primary purpose of the town is to remove the incentive players might otherwise have to scum "safe" dungeon levels for consumables. The Black Market is therefore kind of an outlier and/or vestige of earlier iterations of the game design, but I guess not having it would mean that money is even more pointless than it currently is. Plus of course the players that enjoy shopping would not appreciate its removal.

The black market is an innovation, not a vestigal remnant.

[gglibertine]

At the risk of sounding stereotypically female, I find the shops really valuable and the Black Market indispensable. I often find myself reaching DL40 or lower without having found a decent shooter. Sometimes a Ring of Flames, Ice, Lightning, or Acid can fill in that one resistance I haven't been able to cover (and provide a handy area attack in the process). The occasional stat potion can provide a much-needed bonus boost at an earlier level than I'd be able to find it in the dungeon.

I think the usefulness of shops depends on your play style, and I like to come back to the town every few dungeon levels to offload stuff I might want later (like a weapon or armor that's too heavy for me to use at my current STR, or spare rods in case the ones I'm carrying get destroyed) and pick up more ammo.

I don't think adding a 'layaway' feature makes anything unnecessarily complicated or qualifies as "obsessing" over shopping. I just thought it was a neat idea and figured I'd throw it out there and see what other people think.

Apparently most of you think it's pants. Fair enough. But I would point out that there are a lot of different ways to play Angband, and for those of us who go slow but steady instead of taking a deep dive the first chance we get, the town is an important tool. Don't assume that your way is the only way.

[wobbly]

I like or dislike shops depending on the variant. If it's got a world-map I'll usually enjoy shops for the thematics. If it's single dungeon I'm usually after a faster game.

[Derakon]

To be clear, I don't object to a layaway option, and I don't in the slightest think less of you for having proposed it! I just don't think I'd use it myself, and I've a feeling the people currently making contributions to the codebase have other things on their mind than stores and shopping. But I would be surprised if a layaway option wouldn't be accepted if someone were to code it up and submit it as a pull request. It strikes me as an inoffensive and reasonably-balanced option.

[Pete Mack]

The trouble with layaway is it guarantees delivery of some critical items that don' t cost too much:
Wand of TO
Potion of Constitution
Rod of detection

Variance (aka the RNG god) is the spice of life in Angband, and this reduces it in a very predictable manner.

[Derakon]

The trouble with layaway is it guarantees delivery of some critical items that don' t cost too much:
Wand of TO
Potion of Constitution
Rod of detection

Variance (aka the RNG god) is the spice of life in Angband, and this reduces it in a very predictable manner.

It only guarantees it if you see these items in the store in the relatively narrow band where you can't afford them but can afford the layaway fees. You're still dependent on the store to actually generate the item you want.

But yes, layaway would make the "shopping game" moderately more powerful, so to speak.

[Philip]

Layaway hasn't broken those variants that have it. It would make shopping more interesting, which is the only thing aside from removing it that could possibly make it less bad.

[Carnivean]

It only guarantees it if you see these items in the store in the relatively narrow band where you can't afford them but can afford the layaway fees. You're still dependent on the store to actually generate the item you want.

But yes, layaway would make the "shopping game" moderately more powerful, so to speak.

I'm for the idea. It's a little piece of engagement that is more likely to reduce grinding than unbalance the game, especially for the less experienced player. The power divers won't bother, and conversely it won't affect them in any way.