Best code examples for terrain generation, AI and quests?

[Derakon]

Is that why Sangband has skills instead of classes, to make the game design less asymmetrical over time to compensate for gameplay changes presented by 4GAI?

I mean, with classes you'll have lasting strengths and weaknesses in combat. With skills you can first play to your initial favorite strengths, then over time compensate for weaknesses even if it takes a couple of levels. This also helps players gain access to abilities in the end game that would otherwise have been restricted by class, while stronger enemies have fewer to no restrictions on abilities. So asymmetrical game design at the start, but symmetrical at the end.

Or have I understood this all wrong?

It's been a long time since I played SAngband, and I was never very good at it, but my impression was that it strongly encouraged you to focus in a relatively small set of skills. You get to choose which skills to focus on, and which ones get priority when leveling up, but as a rule you won't be making a major course-correction at any point in the game because of how skill costs work.

But really, mostly what I'm talking about is how monsters tend to have hugely powerful abilities that they only rarely use. Pick practically any monster in the game, and they will "waste" the majority of their turns on low-value actions like moving, casting weak spells, or melee (even monsters with powerful melee often have an even more powerful spell they could cast). Imagine if the Morgoth fight consisted of him standing off at a distance and repeatedly casting only either Mana Storm or Summon Greater Undead? He'd be practically unbeatable. Even simple foes like Poltergeists or Apprentices would be vastly more dangerous if they used their limited abilities to good effect, the way a player would.

Really what you should do if you want to look at a game that's thought long and hard about monster AI and its effects on the scope of the game, is go play Sil.

[krazyhades]

And iirc half had to intentionally nerf the Sil archer AI because when archers played too intelligently they were no fun to fight, constantly backing away without getting cornered whenever the player tried to close. They're still a bit annoying, but at least they can be tricked into a pin against a wall if you shepherd them properly.

[Pete Mack]

Oh yeah. If AI consists only of optimal spell choice, It's pretty much a disaster. I tried playing with smart monsters *once* with V 3.0.x, as a dwarf paladin. Big damage and unlimited healing, and I could barely scratch Morgoth. A ranger with Bard *might* have a chance, but no one else. And that was only optimized for healing, not for MAX offensive damage. It's why Mana Burn in O/FA is so powerful.

[Derakon]

Oh yeah. If AI consists only of optimal spell choice, It's pretty much a disaster. I tried playing with smart monsters *once* with V 3.0.x, as a dwarf paladin. Big damage and unlimited healing, and I could barely scratch Morgoth. A ranger with Bard *might* have a chance, but no one else. And that was only optimized for healing, not for MAX offensive damage. It's why Mana Burn in O/FA is so powerful.

That reminds me of my one reasonably successful NPP character, which was also a paladin. Pretty much every fight against a unique consisted of spamming heals while the unique spammed attack spells, until the unique ran low on mana and I was finally able to start dealing damage.

[takkaria]

Is that why Sangband has skills instead of classes, to make the game design less asymmetrical over time to compensate for gameplay changes presented by 4GAI?

No. Sangband existed before the 4GAI.

[Derakon]

Oh yeah, come to think, Sangband used to be hilariously unbalanced, like, you could buy as many skills as you liked, crafted heavy crossbows always gave +6 to at least one stat, and there was a crafting skill that let you combine two items into one that had attributes of both, which I seem to recall was buggy and tended to produce functional equivalents of Bladeturner.

Sangband's been around for awhile, is what I'm saying.