two bugs 4.0.5

[Sky]

bug 1: reproduces always

when you get XP-drained enough to drop a CL, if you drink a RLL you'll restore any drained stats too, as if you had levelled.

bug 2: reproduces occasionally

app crashes without log when using mouse movement.
when i move too fast with mouse clicks, sometimes angband will just crash, no save, no error message.

[Ingwe Ingweron]

bug 1: reproduces always

when you get XP-drained enough to drop a CL, if you drink a RLL you'll restore any drained stats too, as if you had levelled.

Not a bug, this is intentional.

[Derakon]

Not a bug, this is intentional.

Has anyone really made a statement on that one way or another? IMO this is a bug; players should not be encouraged to go through a weird song and dance in order to sidestep an important aspect of gameplay (viz. playing with drained stats).

I mean, it's been around for awhile, but that doesn't mean it's not a bug, just that the devs haven't prioritized it.

[Pete Mack]

@Derakon-the term you are looking for is exploit.

[Derakon]

@Derakon-the term you are looking for is exploit.

Well, maybe. But the thing that bugs me isn't that it's unintended, it's that it encourages this weird little song and dance that isn't itself actually interesting gameplay. Go find a harmless experience drainer, let it beat on you until you lose a level, drink an RLL potion (infinitely available from the temple), and your stats are restored.

In other words, we've replaced townscumming for stat restore potions with townscumming for RLL and finding a weak undead monster. It's arguably an improvement in that most players aren't going to bother, but it should still be fixed. Only get the stat restore the first time you reach a CL.

[Sky]

^ what he said.

[Thraalbee]

Please consider the ironman scenario too. Those pots are not so common

[Ingwe Ingweron]

Please consider the ironman scenario too. Those pots are not so common

+1 here. I've been in a lot of ironman games without a way to restore stats for a very long time. I just keep playing, but if someone wants to waste valuable experience and time by draining to restore stats, then let them.

[Derakon]

Please consider the ironman scenario too. Those pots are not so common

You'll live. Ironman is supposed to be hard. Plus, if you're having trouble with a particular stat, you can carry around potions that boost that stat (e.g. Potion of Brawn or Potion of Strength). They restore the stat before they boost it. The +1/-1 potions show up when players are still leveling up quickly, and later when leveling tails off, stat potions start becoming a bit more common to compensate. You'll still have to deal with drained stats for a little while if you don't carry the potions with you, but that shouldn't be the end of the world.

Stat-boost potions are a much more sensible method to deal with drained stats than the RLL dance.

[Sky]

the drain dance isn't the only - or even the main - scenario. it's just that, if you have been drained, and you restore your XP, you shouldn't ALSO get your stats restored too.

[Estie]

Imo the issue here is not the way the song and dance has to work, but the environment that wants you to do a song and dance in the first place.

Level draining is so widespread that there is no way to avoid it. It would be more interesting if there was a choice involved- do I fight the leveldrainer to get at his treasure and re-do all the levelling, or do I move on - but barring a major rework of monsters, a simple song and dance, wether "exploit" or not, is welcome.
If the objective is to reduce levelling speed, simply assign less xp/kill.

[Derakon]

Well, and this gets into one of the things I've agitated for in the past: converting experience drain into temporary level drain. If getting hit by a ghost drained 2clvls per hit, you'd start to care pretty quickly in that fight...but the experience drain would fix itself some time later, or immediately on application of RLL.

In other words, convert EXP drain from a permanent detriment to a status effect.

[Pete Mack]

@Estie--sure it happens every game that at one point or another you lose a level. So what? At one point or another you get mauled by a death quasit, too.