Plead to change shop UI

[Timo Pietilä]

Hello from a long hiatus. I just recently started playing 3.4 beta release and again did a mistake in shop like I have made about zillion times before: I buy the first item into list. In normal game I would just sell them back, but this is no-selling game.

This mistake is because of very simple UI change in shops compared to everything else in game. In shop sequence is item-action. Everywhere else it is action-item.

So could someone please change shop interface back to how the rest of the world works? At least put that as an option (now that Takkaria is no longer in control, this should not be a problem).

I also noticed that mini-keyhelp for certain commands like targetting and look are gone (from info line). With this break in playing I don't remember which keys did what so I bet newbies are a way more confused than I am. You need to read help to see which key switched between targets, which to use to look at specific grid instead of jumping around etc. It seems that with look-command you can no longer look at any position, you have to jump around. Targetting at least allows me to look at the wall (to see if it is permanent wall for example.

[Magnate]

This is a really thorny one. IIRC takkaria's position was that item-action was the way the game was going, and the shop UI was first but eventually everything would work that way. That was 3.1.0, and here we are staring down the barrel of 3.4.0 and it hasn't gone any further.

Blubaron has done the most UI work in the last couple of versions - mainly on mouse support, which is inherently item-action (you click on the item and get an action context menu). Blubaron - how much work would it be to convert the main UI to item-action? Specifically, would it be more or less work than putting in an option-dependent shop UI (which sounds terrible!).

[HallucinationMushroom]

I would very much like the old shop interface option as well since I spend an unhealthy amount of time shopping and hoarding. I can fly through about 50 sub-optimal transactions all over the town in about 30 seconds in 3.06, but now it takes me like 10 minutes to obsess over my keystrokes which I invariably screw up, always at the black market.

[Blue Baron]

Blubaron has done the most UI work in the last couple of versions - mainly on mouse support, which is inherently item-action (you click on the item and get an action context menu). Blubaron - how much work would it be to convert the main UI to item-action? Specifically, would it be more or less work than putting in an option-dependent shop UI (which sounds terrible!).

The inventory command already uses item-action. Is there another command that it is appropriate for? (with the other item commands the action is implicit in the command, so would always be action-item.)

for instance, in a store, item-action for selling only makes sense if the players inventory was already on screen.

the only area I see that can use an item-action interface is a generic "interact with terrain" command, but I might be missing something.

Purchasing in a store:
Lets say the player wants to buy item 'f'. the current way is by pressing "f,p". the old way is by pressing "p,f". Adding an if block that would ignore the current selection and pick another letter in the buy and examine commands would be easy to do.

It would also be possible to make it so that any of "p,f", "f,p,f", or "f,p,enter" would work, by adding another confirmation prompt between the purchase command and the actual number prompt/buy confirmation.

BTW, I prefer the old way, and also make purchase errors, but that preference is not very strong. Any of the four ways (current, old, option, or hybrid), is fine with me. I am willing to go with/implement the consensus, but as usual, I don't know when I will get to it.

[Malak Darkhunter]

I get used to the shop ui, but i dont much care for it, can be kind of aggravating, i prefer the old way, very simple, but if the changes where meant for something greater then by all means have at it.

[buzzkill]

I've mentioned this about a million times before but it never gets any traction. In a no-selling game, double-tap to buy is superior to any other store option I've ever played. Want to buy the item in the a slot, just type aa. Want 6, just type aaaaaaa. It's hard to screw that up. To examine the item in slot a, type al.

[Malak Darkhunter]

I've mentioned this about a million times before but it never gets any traction. In a no-selling game, double-tap to buy is superior to any other store option I've ever played. Want to buy the item in the a slot, just type aa. Want 6, just type aaaaaaa. It's hard to screw that up. To examine the item in slot a, type al.

Im glad you prefer to do things that way, but i dont, but hey to each is own

[Nomad]

Want to buy the item in the a slot, just type aa. Want 6, just type aaaaaaa.

What if you want 99?

[ghengiz]

What if you want 99?

probably he has hired a monkey to press the key repetitively

[buzzkill]

What if you want 99?

I don't know if I've ever done that.

One could always type aa, then respond to prompt for quantity, then respond to prompt for confirmation, which BTW is the way the current DAJ implementation works. IMO, that's more clunky than what I described. I never buy massive quantities, usually 20 max. I was just hyping the system I prefer then tweaking it further to suit my preferences. I could see it being cumbersome for heavy shoppers.

[takkaria]

Hello from a long hiatus. I just recently started playing 3.4 beta release and again did a mistake in shop like I have made about zillion times before: I buy the first item into list. In normal game I would just sell them back, but this is no-selling game.

I'm not opposed to changing it back. I would be really interested to hear what you think of the rest of 3.4 beta though.

[fizzix]

I'm not opposed to changing it back. I would be really interested to hear what you think of the rest of 3.4 beta though.

For the record, I have no problem with this going into 3.4. I actually have no opinion on this issue, which means I make a poor judge at deciding whether it's a good change or not. I do know that a change probably needs to be submitted soon, and I'm unlikely to be able to do it myself.

[Timo Pietilä]

I'm not opposed to changing it back. I would be really interested to hear what you think of the rest of 3.4 beta though.

Haven't yet played much (just reached stat-gain, if there is such a thing), but it kind of feels more like it used to be. Nerfted detection for items really makes huge difference. Also found minor demon pit which had Haradekket which greatly improved my survival chances (playing priest, but three blows with edged weapon vs one with non-ego whip is too good not to use). Had a close call with unseen Basilisk (fast, breathes poison for over 100 points, and I have just slightly over 200HP) in cavern level at 1400'. Tengus in that pit were really annoying. Oddly no orc pits yet, usually by this time I have seen several.

Ego-item frequency feels better. I'm no longer swamped by them and several of my equipment are still non-ego. Phial (from Shagrat at 750') and Haradekket (minor demon pit at 1150') are only artifacts this far. BTW, that Phial was before I saw first lantern. Maybe lanterns should be a bit less rare or shallower.

[EDIT] typo fixed

[d_m]

I am pretty agnostic about selling UI. It wasn't hard for me to adapt to it and it won't be hard for me to adapt back if we go that way.

It's not a good idea for 3.4, but if we wanted to do a radical shift (to support gameboy, handhelds, new UI, etc) I think using an option for that might not be a bad idea. The lesson learned here is that slow gradual UI shifts like this don't work because they are (necessarily) inconsistent and draw out the breakage/confusion over a long period of time.

I'm not sure if that helps or muddies the waters, but it's my feeling on it.

I am also still interested in trying to reduce the number of "necessary" commands to be as small as possible. I think Sil has achieved a lot of the things I've wanted to here.

[Jungle_Boy]

I am also still interested in trying to reduce the number of "necessary" commands to be as small as possible. I think Sil has achieved a lot of the things I've wanted to here.

I agree with this, I think it would be worth having angband look at Sil's keyset to see if it could be used in Angband.