[3.4-dev] Apr 15, 2012: Remove curse is gone

[PowerWyrm]

Ok, in the current dev version, there are no more cursed base items and egos. But what happens if I read a scroll of curse weapon/armour? Put on a cursed artifact? Am I stuck with the item forever?

Note that changes.txt says: "Remove all remove curse items and spells (except *remove curse*)". But the actual commit also removed *remove curse*...

[fizzix]

Ok, in the current dev version, there are no more cursed base items and egos. But what happens if I read a scroll of curse weapon/armour? Put on a cursed artifact? Am I stuck with the item forever?

Note that changes.txt says: "Remove all remove curse items and spells (except *remove curse*)". But the actual commit also removed *remove curse*...

Heavy curses can be removed by enchant scrolls. The text of enchant scrolls has been modified so that this function is obvious. (and I've also modified this in the in-game help as well.) This is a far more reasonable way of removing curses than *remove_curse.* So I decided to chuck *remove_curse* as well, although I apparently screwed up on the commit name.

Now for an aside, in case someone wants to help navigate this tricky issue.

I'd prefer to just chuck curse-weapon and curse-item scrolls altogether. Or at least remove the curse part from them, just make them blast the weapon. If there's enough consensus on this, I might go ahead with that for 3.4, but I'm really trying to make as few game changes as possible, while making sure that everything that the stuff that was put in shortly after 3.3 came out actually works.

To expand a little, curses are currently a huge problem. They've been removed entirely from weapons and jewelry and only exist on artifacts and stuff you curse yourself with the scrolls. This has left a sort of limbo situation in current vanilla, where there is no need for remove_curse, but everyone thinks that they will be neat and cool in the future, so no one wants to just yank everything out. However, to make 3.4 not have silly useless items, remove_curse needs to be temporarily cut, and the question remains, whether to cut other stuff as well.

[Derakon]

Why not simply prevent Curse Weapon and Curse Armor scrolls from being allocated? You don't have to remove any of the logic associated with them in the code (and if someone imports a savefile with one in their inventory it'll still work), but you avoid the issue of a small percentage of characters getting effectively killed because they read an un-ID'd scroll at 500' and got a useless lump of metal welded to their hands where their sword used to be.

Other possible and presumably straightforward approaches that would keep the scrolls around without making them potential game-enders:
* Sticky-curse the item, but don't change its stats. The player is stuck with that particular gear until they can uncurse it, even if it's obsolete, but it's not completely useless.
* Don't sticky-curse the item, but disenchant it. E.g. apply -1d8 to hit/dam/AC modifiers.
* Attach a negative property to the item (-1d4 to a random stat, for example, or apply aggravation), or remove a positive property.

[fizzix]

Why not simply prevent Curse Weapon and Curse Armor scrolls from being allocated?

Yes, this is what I mean by removing them. Not removing the code, just the item. Seriously, if this suggestion or any of the others are ok to people I'll do it. I believe there were people that argued for these items to remain though. I don't remember the actual arguments...

[PowerWyrm]

Heavy curses can be removed by enchant scrolls.

There are a few artifacts that can't be uncursed that way, because they already have high plusses (Beruthiel and Gothmog come to mind). Also with scrolls of enchant non available in town anymore, removing a curse would almost take a whole game...

[fizzix]

There are a few artifacts that can't be uncursed that way, because they already have high plusses (Beruthiel and Gothmog come to mind). Also with scrolls of enchant non available in town anymore, removing a curse would almost take a whole game...

1-3 *enchant* scrolls will do it. You'll find those with reasonable frequency in the dungeon. Certainly more often than you'll find *remove* curse. If you're paranoid about wielding a cursed artifact from the floor (picking it up will let you know it's cursed) you can stored some in your home.

And yes, there are useless artifacts that become even more useless once the sticky curse is gone. Gothmog isn't really one of them because of IMFIRE. but melkor, mormegil, camlost, gorlim, and beruthiel are. Those would have to go too, or made into mixed blessing items. gothmog, calris, and eol can stay as is I think.

[Derakon]

There are a few artifacts that can't be uncursed that way, because they already have high plusses (Beruthiel and Gothmog come to mind). Also with scrolls of enchant non available in town anymore, removing a curse would almost take a whole game...

The curse-removal aspect of enchant scrolls occurs even if the enchant fails, so eventually the curse will break even if the pluses never change.

[Timo Pietilä]

once the sticky curse is gone.

I have been away from angband for some time now, so I have missed this. What replaced the sticky curse? Or are you still pondering how to replace it?

My suggestion about zillion years ago was to allow remove but not allow dropping (even for permacurse-items). Case of scared to even try becomes scared to lose inventory space. Still very annoying, but manageable.

[PowerWyrm]

The curse-removal aspect of enchant scrolls occurs even if the enchant fails, so eventually the curse will break even if the pluses never change.

Didn't remember that. I just checked and you have 1/8 chance of breaking the curse on an artifact with enchant scrolls. Then remove curse should really go away without further notice...

[PowerWyrm]

1-3 *enchant* scrolls will do it. You'll find those with reasonable frequency in the dungeon. Certainly more often than you'll find *remove* curse. If you're paranoid about wielding a cursed artifact from the floor (picking it up will let you know it's cursed) you can stored some in your home.

And yes, there are useless artifacts that become even more useless once the sticky curse is gone. Gothmog isn't really one of them because of IMFIRE. but melkor, mormegil, camlost, gorlim, and beruthiel are. Those would have to go too, or made into mixed blessing items. gothmog, calris, and eol can stay as is I think.

Gorlim and Beruthiel aren't useless. Gorlim boosts tohit and todam and only penalizes INT/WIS, which makes it a viable helm for warriors when trying Morgoth. Beruthiel gives telepathy, so you can use it as a swap item until you get another source of telepathy. So definitely keep them!

[DaviddesJ]

I keep trying to remove the curse on Boots of Wormtongue (3.4.1), which I haven't put on, with Enchant Armor scrolls. Tried about a dozen so far, but it still says Cursed. Will this go away eventually if I succeed, or do I need to put it on to trigger the curse and then remove it?

[DaviddesJ]

I've tried a whole lot of Enchant Armor scrolls on my cursed artifact boots now. Maybe 20? Is this really ever going to work?

[DaviddesJ]

Haha! Not a minute after my last posting, I went back to my game and read one more Enchant Armor scroll and it worked!