Magnate's new egos

[fizzix]

[grumpy old man hat]

"Object distributions may have changed" is not what I would consider to be a low-impact change.

Object distribution definitely has changed. It wasn't that great before, and it's in a bizarre state right now. However, the ability to tweak it has gone up incredibly. Before, we only had a couple knobs to play with, now we have a lot more. The hope is we can tweak things to get good gameplay. It's possible, but unlikely, that we won't be able to. In which case, it won't go into V.

The biggest change though, as with most, is internal. The item generation is such a gigantic kludge and this fixes a lot of it.

But this
> However, it sets us up to change so much more...

is the bit that worries me

A.

So, as you're probably aware, one of the main ideas behind Angband is to make it very easy for variant maintainers to make their own game solely by changing the edit files. This puts a bunch more stuff in the edit files, and greatly expands what other people can do with the game. I think that's a net win. I think, but I'm not sure, that this is what Magnate is implying.

Anyway, nothing is set it stone yet. I have great hopes that affixes will work out, and will apply myself to that goal. And I hope you and buzzkill are willing to give it a shot and tell us what works and what is complete crap.

[buzzkill]

Not to worry Antoine. At some point all the rapid fire changes will cease, and the subsequent maintainers will get to the serious work of producing a game that is vaguely resembles Angband and is indeed playable (by your great grandchildren). But not to worry still, cause as our friendly public relations rep is always quick to point out, you can always play 3.2 or 3.1 or 2.8 some other non-maintained UI nightmare that still had some sense of balance and old-school charm. "Vanilla Angband, we're not just Vanilla anymore."

FK is making a comeback. That should say something.

[Antoine]

Unless I'm wrong, and what people are scared of is that it somehow breaks the "flavour" of V.

That's my other major concern. If I wanted to find a Cruel Voulge of Dweomercraft, I'd go buy a copy of Diablo 3.

A.

[Antoine]

From my understanding, the major changes with this, as implemented, are:

* You can now get a "partial ego" which has only some of the attributes of existing multipart egos. For example, armor that has two basic elemental resistances, or that can't be damaged but gives no resistances.
* You can get "egos" that don't have bonuses to-hit/dam/AC.
* Some new item combinations are available (e.g. Katana of Chaos, Broken weapons)
* Object distributions may have changed.

So for all that text, this feels like a comparatively low-impact change to item allocation. However, it sets us up to change so much more...

[grumpy old man hat]

"Object distributions may have changed" is not what I would consider to be a low-impact change.

But this
> However, it sets us up to change so much more...

is the bit that worries me

A.

[Nomad]

The simplest thing would seem to be to make all the "obvious on sight" traits like size and material into prefixes, and have the non-obvious traits as suffixes. It's very close to breaking down that way in any case, though you'd have to switch a few like "Aggravating" into "of Aggravation". I presume it would be much easier to code prefixes as apparent and suffixes hidden than to do it on a case by case basis for different affixes.

[Derakon]

I can see arguments for four levels of breakdown, but I agree we should probably wait for rune-based ID before worrying about it. Those levels are:

* Obvious on sight. This would mostly be for stuff that changes the physical composition of the item, like Mithril or Giant.
* Obvious on pickup. Pretty much this is just limited to items that are lighter or heavier than they should be but don't match the first category.
* Obvious on wield. As current -- that flaming sword extinguishes itself when not in use.
* Obvious on use. As current -- that sword of Slay Orc appears mundane until used on orcs.

The number of runes on an item should probably be revealed on pickup.

[Magnate]

Can affixes be obvious to the @? Like, you see a sword on the ground and can immediately tell whether it's broken. Or burning.

It would be possible to achieve that, but I haven't implemented that yet. I think we'll wait until rune-based ID before looking at stuff like that.

[Narvius]

Can affixes be obvious to the @? Like, you see a sword on the ground and can immediately tell whether it's broken. Or burning.

[Magnate]

From my understanding, the major changes with this, as implemented, are:

* You can now get a "partial ego" which has only some of the attributes of existing multipart egos. For example, armor that has two basic elemental resistances, or that can't be damaged but gives no resistances.
* You can get "egos" that don't have bonuses to-hit/dam/AC.
* Some new item combinations are available (e.g. Katana of Chaos, Broken weapons)
* Object distributions may have changed.

So for all that text, this feels like a comparatively low-impact change to item allocation. However, it sets us up to change so much more...

It's kind of you to ratchet down the scariness - at the most basic level you are quite right. But the thing that Antoine and others are probably scared about is the last one: I can't possibly have preserved the balance of the previous object and ego item sets, introduced all these new permutations *and* magically balanced them all perfectly. So yes, distributions will probably feel quite different for both egos and artifacts (n.b. artifacts haven't changed, but the method of generating them has) - this is precisely why I'm keen for it to get wider testing in a dev version, because it'll need adjusting before any new release.

Unless I'm wrong, and what people are scared of is that it somehow breaks the "flavour" of V. I've tried very hard not to do that - there are no new abilities, and no changes to the combat algorithm at all, just new permutations of object flags. Nothing has been removed either. The weirdest thing is probably that you can find (+0,+0) weapons with magical abilities, which never happened before. In general +hit/+dam are a little less common, while variations in dice are more common (they were insanely rare before, for non-artifacts).

[Derakon]

From my understanding, the major changes with this, as implemented, are:

* You can now get a "partial ego" which has only some of the attributes of existing multipart egos. For example, armor that has two basic elemental resistances, or that can't be damaged but gives no resistances.
* You can get "egos" that don't have bonuses to-hit/dam/AC.
* Some new item combinations are available (e.g. Katana of Chaos, Broken weapons)
* Object distributions may have changed.

So for all that text, this feels like a comparatively low-impact change to item allocation. However, it sets us up to change so much more...

[Magnate]

Great coding/conceptual effort Magnate

But

am I the only one who's a bit nervous about this? (For V)

A.

No - the entire dev team is nervous, which is why it's not been released in a dev version yet. If people want to test it, they have to build it themselves.

EDIT: Just as a reminder, this doesn't remove any of the old objects or ego types - they're all still generatable. It just adds a bunch of new stuff, which needs playtesting and balancing.

[Antoine]

Great coding/conceptual effort Magnate

But

am I the only one who's a bit nervous about this? (For V)

A.

[Magnate]

Yes, this is exactly the sort of thing. But before you all get your thinking caps on, here is the list of affixes we have already:

N: is the name (and index number and type)
F: are flags
L: are pvals (pval : min_pval : flags)

### Stuff you'll know already from the old ego_item.txt ###

N:1:suffixf Resist Acid
F:RES_ACID | IGNORE_ACID

N:2:suffixf Resist Lightning
F:RES_ELEC | IGNORE_ELEC

N:3:suffixf Resist Fire
F:RES_FIRE | IGNORE_FIRE

N:4:suffixf Resist Cold
F:RES_COLD | IGNORE_COLD

N:10:suffixf Vulnerability
C:0:0:-d50 (means minus 1d50 to AC)
F:AGGRAVATE | LIGHT_CURSE

N:11refix:Aggravating
F:AGGRAVATE

N:24:suffixf Intelligence
L:d2:0:INT

N:25:suffixf Wisdom
L:d2:0:WIS

N:27:suffixf Beauty
F:SUST_CHR
L:d3:0:CHR

N:30:suffixf Seeing
F:RES_BLIND (note that SEE_INVIS is now separate - see Revealing below)

N:31:suffixf Infravision
L:d5:0:INFRA

N:32:suffixf Light
F:RES_LIGHT (note that the LIGHT flag is now separate - see of Brightness)

N:33:suffixf Telepathy
F:TELEPATHY

N:34:suffixf Regeneration
F:REGEN

N:35:suffixf Teleportation
F:TELEPORT | LIGHT_CURSE

N:38:suffixf Dullness
F:LIGHT_CURSE
L:-d5:0:INT | WIS | CHR

N:39:suffixf Sickliness
F:LIGHT_CURSE
L:-d5:0:STR | DEX | CON

N:40:suffixf Protection
C:0:0:d10 (plus 1d10 AC)
F:RES_SHARD

N:41:suffixf Stealth
L:d3:0:STEALTH

N:44:suffixf Enveloping
C:-d10:-d10:0 (minus 1d10 to-hit and to-dam)
F:SHOW_MODS | LIGHT_CURSE

N:46:suffixf Irritation
C:-d15:-d15:0 (as above only worse)
F:AGGRAVATE | SHOW_MODS | LIGHT_CURSE

N:48:suffixf Free Action
F:FREE_ACT

N:49:suffixf Slaying
C:d5:d5:0
F:SHOW_MODS

N:50:suffixf Agility
L:d2:0EX

N:54:suffixf Weakness
F:LIGHT_CURSE
L:-d10:0:STR

N:55:suffixf Clumsiness
F:LIGHT_CURSE
L:-d10:0EX

N:56:suffixf Slow Descent
F:FEATHER

N:59:suffixf Speed
L:d10:0:SPEED

N:62:suffixf Slowness
F:LIGHT_CURSE
L:-d5:0:SPEED

N:63:suffixf Annoyance
F:AGGRAVATE | LIGHT_CURSE
L:-d10:0:SPEED | STEALTH

N:69:suffixf Extra Attacks
L:d2:0:BLOWS

N:72:suffixf Acid
F:BRAND_ACID | RES_ACID | IGNORE_ACID

N:73:suffixf Lightning
F:BRAND_ELEC | RES_ELEC | IGNORE_ELEC

N:74:suffixf Flame
F:BRAND_FIRE | RES_FIRE | IGNORE_FIRE

N:75:suffixf Frost
F:BRAND_COLD | RES_COLD | IGNORE_COLD

N:76:suffixf Venom
F:BRAND_POIS

N:80:suffixf Slay Animal
F:SLAY_ANIMAL

N:81:suffixf Slay Evil
F:SLAY_EVIL

N:82:suffixf Slay Undead
F:SLAY_UNDEAD

N:83:suffixf Slay Demon
F:SLAY_DEMON

N:84:suffixf Slay Orc
F:SLAY_ORC

N:85:suffixf Slay Troll
F:SLAY_TROLL

N:86:suffixf Slay Giant
F:SLAY_GIANT

N:87:suffixf Slay Dragon
F:SLAY_DRAGON

N:97:suffixf Brightness
F:LIGHT

N:98refix:Everburning
F:NO_FUEL

N:100:suffixf Digging
L:d3:1:TUNNEL

N:102:suffixf Morgul (this really ought to be a theme)
F:SEE_INVIS | AGGRAVATE | HEAVY_CURSE | LIGHT_CURSE |
F:HOLD_LIFE | DRAIN_EXP | SLAY_UNDEAD | BRAND_POIS

N:104:suffixf Accuracy
C:d15:d5:0
M:15:255:0 (this means its minimum to-hit will be +15)

N:105:suffixf Power
C:d5:d15:0
M:255:15:0 (minimum to-dam will be +15)

N:108:suffixf Extra Might
C:d5:d10:0
L:1:0:MIGHT

N:109:suffixf Extra Shots
C:d10:d5:0
L:1:0:SHOTS

N:111:suffixf the Nazgûl (this could be a theme too)
C:-d10:d10:0
F:LIGHT_CURSE | DRAIN_EXP | SEE_INVIS

N:124:suffixf Wounding
C:d5:d5:0

N:125:suffixf Backbiting
C:-d25:-d25:0

N:128:suffixf Craftsmanship
C:0:0:1d6M4
M:0:0:4 (minimum +ac will be +4)


### New affixes ###
## Armour ##

N:129:suffixf Haste
L:d5:0:SPEED (this is the DSM speed ego, which is +5 max)

N:131refixamaged
C:0:0:0:-40:-10 (-40% to base AC, -10% weight)

N:133refix:Light
C:0:0:0:0:-10 (-10% weight)

N:134refix:Golden
C:0:0:0:10:20 (+10% base AC, +20% weight)
F:LIGHT

N:135refix:Mithril
C:0:0:0:20:-25 (+20% base AC, -25% weight)

N:136refix:Adamantite
C:0:0:0:40:30 (+40% base AC, +30% weight)

N:137refix:Silk
C:0:0:0:-10:-50 (-10% base AC, -50% weight)

N:138refix:Spiked
C:d3:d3:0:10:15 (+10% base AC, +15% weight, +hit/dam)

## Weapons ##

N:130refix:Massive
C:0:0:0:0:50:1:0 (this has +1 dice and +50% weight)

N:132refix:Rusty
C:-2:0:0:-10:0:0:-2 (-2 to-hit, -10% weight, -2 sides)

N:141refix:Elven
C:2:0:0:0:-10 (+2 to-hit, -10% weight)

N:142refixwarven
C:0:1:0:0:10:0:0 (+1 dam, +10% weight)
L:1:1:TUNNEL

N:143refix:Gnomish
C:0:-1:0:0:-20:0:-1 (-1 dam, -20% weight, -1 sides)
L:2:2:TUNNEL

N:145refix:Trollish
C:-2:-1:0:0:20:0:2 (-2 to-hit, -1 dam, +20% weight, +2 sides)

N:146refix:Hobbitish
C:2:0:0:0:-20:0:-1 (+2 to-hit, -20% weight, -1 sides)

N:148refixunadan
C:1:1:0:0:0:0:1 (+1 hit/dam, +1 sides)

N:151refix:Kobold
C:0:0:0:0:-20:0:-1 (-20% weight, -1 sides)

N:152refix:Orcish
C:0:0:0:0:20:0:0 (+20% weight)
L:1:1:TUNNEL

N:153refix:Giant
C:-2:0:0:0:150:1:1 (-2 to-hit, +150% weight i.e. 2.5x, +1 dice +1 sides)

N:154refix:Broken
C:-5:-3:0:0:-50:-1:-2 (really not very good)

N:156refix:Cheap
C:-2:0:0 (-2 to-hit)

N:157refix:Ornamental
C:-1:0:0:0:10:0:-1 (-1 to-hit, +10% weight, -1 sides)

N:158refix:Hunter's
C:2d3:0:0 (+to-hit)

N:159refix:Forester's
F:BRAND_ICKY (x2 poison brand)

N:160refix:Quality
C:1+M5:1+M5:0:0:0:0:0 (+hit/dam)

N:161refix:Runed
C:5:2:0:0:0:0:1 (+hit/dam, +1 sides)

N:162refix:Majestic
C:2:2:0:0:20:0:2 (+hit/dam ,+20% weight, +2 sides)

N:163refix:Bone
C:0:0:0:0:-10 (-10% weight)

N:164refix:Stone
C:0:1:0:0:10 (+10% weight, +1 dam)

N:165refix:Lead-Filled
C:0:0:0:0:50:2:-1 (this turns a Mace into an old-style Lead-Filled Mace)

N:166refixragonbone
C:0:1:0:0:0:0:1 (+1 dam +1 sides)

N:167refix:Iron
F:HURT_DEMON (x2 slay demon)

N:168refix:Silver
F:HURT_UNDEAD (x2 slay undead)

N:170refix:Crystal
C:0:1+d2M3:0 (+dam)

N:171refix:Emerald
F:BRAND_FIZZ (x2 acid brand)

N:172refix:Topaz
F:BRAND_BUZZ (x2 elec brand)

N:173refix:Ruby
F:BRAND_WARM (x2 fire brand)

N:174refix:Sapphire
F:BRAND_COOL (x2 cold brand)

N:175refixiamond
C:0:3+d2M2:0 (+dam)

N:176refix:Blackrock
C:0:2+d2M2:0:0:75 (+2 dam, +75% weight)

N:177refix:Sharp
C:M5:1+d2M3:0 (+hit/dam)

N:178refix:Keen
C:M9:2+d3M5:0 (ditto, but a higher affix level)

N:179refix:Vicious
C:M5:1+d2M3:0 (ditto, but for blunt weapons)

N:180refix:Brutal
C:M9:2+d3M5:0 (Keen for blunt weapons)

N:196:suffixf Parrying
C:0:0:d6M6 (+to-ac)

N:197:suffixf Slicing
C:0:0:0:0:0:3:1 (turns a Scythe into a SoS)

N:198:suffixf Chaos
C:0:0:0:0:0:2:0
F:RES_CHAOS
(turns an Executioner Sword into a heavier BoC, can also apply to Zweihanders and Katanas - it just gives +2 dice and rchaos)

N:198:suffixf Disruption
C:0:0:0:0:233:3:4 (turns a normal Mace into an MoD)
F:SLAY_UNDEAD

## General purpose affixes ##

N:181refixurable
F:IGNORE_ACID | IGNORE_FIRE | IGNORE_ELEC | IGNORE_COLD

N:182:suffixf Warding
R:1:HRES (the random high resist for Elvenkind, Aman etc.)

N:183:suffixf Strength
L:d2:1:STR

N:184:suffixf Hardiness
L:d2:1:CON

N:185:suffixf Vitality
F:HOLD_LIFE

N:186refix:Arcane
F:RES_DISEN

N:187:suffixf Bodykeeping
F:SUST_STR | SUST_DEX | SUST_CON (for crowns of Might)

N:188:suffixf Soulkeeping
F:SUST_INT | SUST_WIS | SUST_CHR (for Lordliness)

N:189refix:Fearless
F:RES_FEAR

N:190refix:Silent
F:RES_SOUND

N:191:suffixf Fortitude
F:RES_STUN

N:192:suffixf Certainty
F:RES_CONFU

N:193:suffixf Darkness
F:RES_DARK

N:194:suffixf Searching
L:d5:0:SEARCH

N:195:suffixf Stability (no longer includes Feather Falling)
F:RES_NEXUS

N:199refix:Tough
C:0:0:1+d2M3 (+to-ac)

N:200refix:Reinforced
C:0:0:2+d3M5 (ditto but better)

N:201:suffixf Dweomercraft
R:1:MISC | PROT (the random ability on Blessed/Gondolin weapons, Lothlorien bows etc.)

N:202refix:Protective
R:1:SUST (the random sustain on Defenders/HAs)

N:206:suffixf Slow Digestion
F:SLOW_DIGEST

N:203refix:Robust
F:SUST_STR

N:204refix:Hale
F:SUST_CON

N:205refixextrous
F:SUST_DEX

N:23refix:Sophisticated
F:SUST_INT

N:26refix:Intuitive
F:SUST_WIS

N:29refix:Revealing
F:SEE_INVIS

N:66refix:Pious
F:BLESSED (note that actual Blessed weapons, with random abilities, are now a Theme requiring Pious + of Wisdom)

N:90:suffixf Nightbane
F:KILL_UNDEAD

N:91:suffixf Demonbane
F:KILL_DEMON

N:95:suffixf Dragonbane
F:KILL_DRAGON

N:101:suffixf Impact
F:IMPACT (for diggers Of Earthquakes)

[Nick]

Sorry, Derakon beat you to that gag ;-)

Meh. I'm getting old.

[sethos]

maybe I'm overthinking this, but does this mean that we could have something like this, eventually:

Prefix Base Suffix
Giant Bastard Sword of Cruelty

Giant being themed with increased damage dice and weapon weight, and of cruelty granting increased dice size, + to hit, + to dam? and would that item potentially also have extra things like a brand or slay if it was found deep enough? That would be nearly the same as artifact power, i'd imagine.

Some item Ideas:

Berserker's: small - to hit, large - to AC, large + to dam, chance of getting an extra blow?, chance of aggravating?, could even have a Bserk activation.

Singing: +agg, +regen, +blows, +to hit, +to dam, -search - weapon weight

Shining: +1 light radius, Res light, slay evil, - stealth


Blinding:+1 light radius, Res light and blind, slay evil, large - stealth, elec brand, activate for confuse monsters (blind monsters?)

Black: -1 light radius, res dark, +stealth, poison brand

Midnight: -1 light radius, res dark and nether, large + stealth, poison and acid brand.

Majesty: two or more high resists, feather fall, small +speed, + light radius

of Knowledge: Grants ESP, see invis, +search, +infra, detection activation

yeah, stuff like this could likely go on and on. I think I may have gone overboard with Blinding and especially Midnight, but that's just cuz I'm
Mighty fond of My Midnight Mace of Majesty, Man.

Yeah, this could go on and on.