Overhaul of monster poison immunity?

[artes]

The other day when browsing the monster file, I saw that
skeletons are not immune to poison, while on the other
hand most orc uniques are. This led me to consider an
overhaul of the poison immunities, who seem to be distriuted
kind of randomly.

I'm considering changing the poison immunity status for about
100 monsters. Some are obvious, others are less so.
I'd like your opinions.

To begin with, I suggest that most biological creatures
would not be immune, while creatures that have no fleshy
parts, or undead, would be immune, e.g. skeletons.

For elementals and hounds, purity is important, which means
that they can be contaminated. Thus they will not be immune.

Most monsters that have a poison attack are
immune. I will leave this for the time being.

Some uniques are immune to almost everything, e.g. Mîm.
I guess this is to make them more difficult. I'll leave them be.


Suggested changes in general (with exceptions):

Skeleton -> immune
Orc -> not immune
Ogre -> not immune
Troll -> not immune
Dark elf -> not immune
Creeping coins -> immune
Ghost -> immune
Wight -> immune
Lich -> immune
Wraith -> immune
Ringwraith -> immune
Beholder -> not immune


Special cases where I'd like to add
or remove immunity for the sake of consequence:

Basilisk -> immune
Giant grey scorpion -> immune
Algroth -> immune
Vampire bat -> not immune
Spirit naga -> immune
Hand druj -> immune
Skull druj -> immune
Cyclops -> not immune
The Cat Lord -> not immune


Also I want to remove acid immunity from:

Wolf chieftain


No changes to:

Zombie (not immune)
Vampire (not immune)
Elemental (not immune)
Demon
Many high-level uniques
Carrion crawler (immune)
Catoblepas (immune)
Jelly (mixed)
Ring mimic (not immune)
Chest mimic (not immune)

Please give me your ideas about poison immunity.

[Derakon]

Sounds reasonable to me, though having elementals be vulnerable feels a bit weird.

Wraiths, as I understand it, are basically ghostly, and so should be immune. Liches are magical skeletons and should be immune. Trolls are generally portrayed as giants with bad posture, so shouldn't be immune.

[Therem Harth]

Err, don't trolls have somewhat corrosive blood per LotR? I'd expect the older ones, at least, to be immune to most poisons.

[Zyphyr]

Err, don't trolls have somewhat corrosive blood per LotR?

Corrosive would be acid, not poison.

[buzzkill]

I'm surprised at some of the things either were or were not immune, like skeletons. I guess I always under the assumption that this was because I had an incomplete monster memory. Thumbs up for the overhaul.

[will_asher]

I agree with most of those changes, but the catoblepas has to be immune to poison. This is a quote from wikipedia (and I've heard/read similar things about the catoblepas almost wherever else I've read any description of them):

"Claudius Aelianus (On the Nature of Animals, 7.6) provided a fuller description: the creature was a mid-sized herbivore, about the size of a domestic bull, with a heavy mane, narrow, bloodshot eyes, a scaly back and shaggy eyebrows. The head was so heavy that the beast could only look down. In his description, the animal's gaze was not lethal, but its breath was poison, since it ate only poisonous vegetation."

Also, it doesn't make sense to me that a carrion crawler should be vulnerable to poison. I always assumed it was its poison that causes paralysis.

[Timo Pietilä]

Anything undead should be immune. How do you poison something that doesn't have metabolism and is already dead? There might be some "magical" poisons that affect Vampires and Ghouls and others that eat things, but normal poisons should not affect them.

Mimics in my opinion should not be immune. They are mimics, IE. they mimic the thing, they are not living version of the thing.

No giant/titan should be immune. In fact no giant or titan should be immune to anything else than things they control (fire giants to fire, storm giants to electricity etc.). Unique giants should be vulnerable to just about everything (vulnerable as in not resisting).

Basically non-living things should be immune: Demons, vortices, elementals and undeads and all things that use poison should also be immune (not that this is the case in nature, spiders are quite poisonous to other spiders, and snakes can kill themselves with their own poisons).

You can add exceptions here and there if it fits in thematically. Otherwise I would leave anything living that does not use poison as vulnerable.

[artes]

I agree with most of those changes, but the catoblepas has to be immune to poison. This is a quote from wikipedia (and I've heard/read similar things about the catoblepas almost wherever else I've read any description of them):

"Claudius Aelianus (On the Nature of Animals, 7.6) provided a fuller description: the creature was a mid-sized herbivore, about the size of a domestic bull, with a heavy mane, narrow, bloodshot eyes, a scaly back and shaggy eyebrows. The head was so heavy that the beast could only look down. In his description, the animal's gaze was not lethal, but its breath was poison, since it ate only poisonous vegetation."

Ok. That's cool, eating poisonous vegetation.

Also, it doesn't make sense to me that a carrion crawler should be vulnerable to poison. I always assumed it was its poison that causes paralysis.

Ok. I didn't think about that.

[artes]

Wraiths, as I understand it, are basically ghostly, and so should be immune. Liches are magical skeletons and should be immune. Trolls are generally portrayed as giants with bad posture, so shouldn't be immune.

Trolls are one of the creatures I'm uncertain about. Many of them have poison immunity now. Some might argue that if they can regenerate and so on, they would have a strong physique and resistance. On the other hand, regeneration could make the poison spread faster in their body, making them more vulnerable.

When it comes to zombies and similar undead like mummies, I'm thinking that since they have muscles and a nervous system, they could be effected by poison. The same with a lich, possibly, if they are not completely skeletal. I don't know what a wight is.

[artes]

There might be some "magical" poisons that affect Vampires and Ghouls and others that eat things, but normal poisons should not affect them.

Vampires are allergic to garlic.

Mimics in my opinion should not be immune. They are mimics, IE. they mimic the thing, they are not living version of the thing.

Ok. Though mimics have a poison attack, so maybe they should be made immune anyway, for consistency.

[Shockbolt]

Introducing many types of poison is when the real fun begins

[artes]

Something I think would be fun is if monsters could get poisoned in the same way as the player. A rouge could throw a poison bottle or poisoned dart at them and run away, and wait while the monster was softened up.

[buzzkill]

I was under the impression that mimics were magically animated version of the actual items (coins), covered with some sort of poisonous goo, therefore immune to poison. I'm not sure where I got that from though.

[artes]

Another thing to consider is that some high level uniques could possibly be imagined as wearing items that give resistance, e.g. a Ring of poison resistance. Or they could be imagined as using spells that give resistance.

[Derakon]

I was under the impression that mimics were magically animated version of the actual items (coins), covered with some sort of poisonous goo, therefore immune to poison. I'm not sure where I got that from though.

The usual portrayal of a mimic is a chest mimic, which looks like a chest until it opens, as the opening is its mouth.

How that would work for ring, scroll, etc. mimics I don't know.