Resist system

[Timo Pietilä]

To try to get this topic a little bit back on track I will list what I think needs to be "fixed" in the current system.

1. warriors need easier access to double resist or max damage from single resist basic four should be less, or we could give warriors more hp but that creates more problems than it solves I'm sure.
2. double resist should be made less powerful
3. high resists sould be made more valuable

IMO 1 and 3 are not something that needs to be done, 2 is.

Warriors have no problem with basic four. Acid and Poison have too low damage cap to be any danger, fire and cold you can get double-resist and heavy elec-breathers are very rare. IMO max damage should be higher rather than lower. 600 would be good number. If you can't handle monster with that high damage, don't fight it. Also immunities are pretty easy to get in current vanilla.

Double-resist makes every basic element practically harmless.

High resists are already valuable, nexus you need to prevent stat-scrambling, chaos to prevent hallucination, sound to prevent stunning, disenchantment to prevent disenchantment, light & dark to prevent blindness. Only high resist that does not have bad side-effect is nether. Make the XP-drain count something and you have that fixed too.

[fizzix]

To me combat itself is pretty pointless exercise, quite boring in most cases, what counts to me is do I choose to fight at all. Max damages affect that way more than averages. Even that nether resist does on average reduce damage quite a bit, I still think that it is mostly pointless resist to have because max damage without it and with it are so close to each other. Resist effect on choosing to fight is tiny.

Tell me which one would be more dangerous to you:
Monster that breathes fixed 373 points of damage or monster that breathes 471-275 points of damage?

IMO this is a problem with knowing the game and the monsters too well. I have the same issue, I rarely ever need to bail on a fight. When I do it's because of a brutal summon. This, however, does not invalidate Derakon's point of combat stamina mattering. It just doesn't matter to us.

It's really hard to try to put yourself back into the 'playing for the first time' mindset. But it's a very useful exercise.

[fizzix]

High resists are already valuable, nexus you need to prevent stat-scrambling, chaos to prevent hallucination, sound to prevent stunning, disenchantment to prevent disenchantment, light & dark to prevent blindness. Only high resist that does not have bad side-effect is nether. Make the XP-drain count something and you have that fixed too.

I'd be careful, there are many more nether-based attacks than there are nexus, chaos, or disenchantment. Even sound, which is probably the second most common of the higher elements, is rare compared to nether. Nether comes in bolt, ball, or breath form. ANd then there are all the monsters that hit to drain XP. If you made XP-drain count something, then there are a lot of monsters that you avoid.

IMO the nether high resist should give decent (or at least consistent) damage reduction, but shouldn't stop XP-drain. Hold-life is for that. I'm not so much attached to the unwritten rule that all high-level resists must work the same.

[Jungle_Boy]

IMO 1 and 3 are not something that needs to be done, 2 is.

Warriors have no problem with basic four. Acid and Poison have too low damage cap to be any danger, fire and cold you can get double-resist and heavy elec-breathers are very rare. IMO max damage should be higher rather than lower. 600 would be good number. If you can't handle monster with that high damage, don't fight it. Also immunities are pretty easy to get in current vanilla.

Well, MY warriors have a problem with basic four, maybe I need to start carrying !rFire and !rCold. Also part of my problem is I don't know if I can handle a monster until after I have engaged it and I think a lot of players are this way.

[Timo Pietilä]

I'd be careful, there are many more nether-based attacks than there are nexus, chaos, or disenchantment. Even sound, which is probably the second most common of the higher elements, is rare compared to nether. Nether comes in bolt, ball, or breath form. ANd then there are all the monsters that hit to drain XP. If you made XP-drain count something, then there are a lot of monsters that you avoid.

Hit to drain XP is not affected by nether resist. Hold Life is the only thing that affects that.

Nether bolt and ball are pretty weak except in very early when your char is still weakling. Breath is way more dangerous, but there are very few that breathe nether: Dracolich, Nightwalker or -crawler, can't remember which, Azriel and Carcharoth. I think that's the whole set.

IMO the nether high resist should give decent (or at least consistent) damage reduction, but shouldn't stop XP-drain. Hold-life is for that. I'm not so much attached to the unwritten rule that all high-level resists must work the same.

I disagree with that "consistent" statement. You need to keep it dangerous and variable. I prefer making basic four variable as well to make those things consistent with high resists so that newbies do not get confused.

If you make it constant damage reduction it needs to be very close to what is max damage now from resisted nether. That's the point. Otherwise you turn those scary things that are worth avoiding weaklings.

All high elements negate all their side-effects from that particular source. Chaos prevents confusion from Chaos, but not from Umber Hulk melee. Nexus teleportation from nexus, but not from spell etc. That's consistent (except for disenchantment that does protect your stuff from element and from disenchanting hits, but OTOH, I don't think that is something we should change).

[Timo Pietilä]

Well, MY warriors have a problem with basic four, maybe I need to start carrying !rFire and !rCold. Also part of my problem is I don't know if I can handle a monster until after I have engaged it and I think a lot of players are this way.

Live and learn. That's what makes angband tough. You should not be able to win until many tries. If game gets too easy it loses its replayability. You lose the sensation of achievement.

Basic rules apply to basic four, you look at monster and figure the max damage it can make. If you don't know it assume it can kill you. Be faster than it is. Have high HP.

3.2 is way too easy. 3.3 is not much better, but it is a step to right direction.