HURT_FIRE and HURT_COLD

[CunningGabe]

I've been meaning for a while to go through and add HURT_FIRE and HURT_COLD to some monsters. There was some earlier discussion here. I'm trying to be a little stingy with it, because I don't want to make a whole bunch of monsters much easier. Here is what I am planning so far:

Add HURT_FIRE to:
* All molds except the red mold.
* All mushrooms.
* All skeletons except Cantoras. (Edit: removed per suggestions)
* All vampires (except uniques?) (Edit: added)
* All zombies/mummies.
* Cold elementals, vortices, and zephyr hounds.
* Scroll mimics.

Add HURT_COLD to:
* All jellies that aren't currently immune to cold.
* Fire elementals, vortices, and zephyr hounds. (But not plasma ones).
* Potion mimics.
* All reptiles, except Tarrasque (Edit: added)
* All snakes (Edit: added)
* All nagas (Edit2: added)
* All hydras (Edit2: added)

A few notes on things I willfully left out. I think it is best if we don't give HURT_FIRE to every cold-aligned monster (such as dragons) unless that monster is elemental, to keep dragons and wyrms threatening. Similarly, I opted against giving HURT_FIRE to vampires, even though they are corporeal undead, to help distinguish them from skeletons and zombies.

I'm not really satisfied with the number of monsters receiving HURT_COLD compared to HURT_FIRE. There are more creatures with IM_COLD than IM_FIRE (many of them undead), so cold is already less useful than fire. It would be nice to come up with other sensible monsters to give HURT_COLD to, to help even the balance. Alternatively (or additionally), we could decide not to give HURT_FIRE to undead, in which case the balance is not too bad.

Any comments on what I propose above and any additional thoughts/ideas are welcome!

[d_m]

Maybe some of the reptiles should get HURT_COLD?

[Derakon]

Skeletons shouldn't get HURT_FIRE since bones do a pretty good job of surviving fires as it is. And I agree that giving reptiles HURT_COLD isn't a bad idea. Though we probably shouldn't give the Tarrasque a cold weakness.

[jens]

Skeletons shouldn't get HURT_FIRE since bones do a pretty good job of surviving fires as it is. And I agree that giving reptiles HURT_COLD isn't a bad idea. Though we probably shouldn't give the Tarrasque a cold weakness.

Vampires on the other hand burn up quite easily :-)

[Nomad]

Maybe some of the reptiles should get HURT_COLD?

How about nagas and hydras?

[Raggy]

white dragons should have HURT_FIRE, and likewise red dragons HURT_COLD

[Starhawk]

I agree with skeletons not belonging on the HURT_FIRE list. That doesn't seem to logically follow, nor does it stem from old-school D&D/LOTR tropes.

The various floating-eye monsters could go on the HURT_COLD list. Eyes are mostly big bags of water, it sort-of makes sense that freezing would hurt them a little more than everyone else.

[CunningGabe]

Okay, based on responses so far, here are the changes I'm considering:

- Remove HURT_FIRE from skeletons.
- Add HURT_FIRE to vampires.
- Add HURT_COLD to reptiles (except notables like the Tarrasque).
- Add HURT_COLD to snakes.

That makes the lists fairly even. Fire still comes out ahead, in the end (when considering monster resistance as well), but maybe that's okay.

I'm not looking to add any other monsters (again, to avoid weakening a lot of monsters across the board), but if people think something on my list should be replaced with something else, or that something should be removed, let me know.

[bulian]

Is a lack of rFire/rCold insufficient? I guess this helps low level mages while not really affecting most other classes, so it seems reasonable to me. I wouldn't put hurt_fire on high end vampires with native depth below DL50.

Other suggestions for hurt_fire -
Hairy animals - wolves and yeti.
Low level liches

What about hurt_acid for regenerating creatures and metal objects, such as trolls, creeping coins, and golems?

[Zyphyr]

What about hurt_acid for regenerating creatures and metal objects, such as trolls, creeping coins, and golems?

Currently Coins resist acid.

[Derakon]

Certainly gold, platinum, mithril, and adamant should resist acid. Silver and copper could be vulnerable, as could the iron golem.

[fizzix]

Okay, based on responses so far, here are the changes I'm considering:

- Remove HURT_FIRE from skeletons.
- Add HURT_FIRE to vampires.
- Add HURT_COLD to reptiles (except notables like the Tarrasque).
- Add HURT_COLD to snakes.

That makes the lists fairly even. Fire still comes out ahead, in the end (when considering monster resistance as well), but maybe that's okay.

I'm not looking to add any other monsters (again, to avoid weakening a lot of monsters across the board), but if people think something on my list should be replaced with something else, or that something should be removed, let me know.

Fire comes out *way* ahead, because the only monster you will probably care about in this list are the vampires. I'd add HURT_COLD to Hydras and Nagas. Hydras are tough monsters for their level/reward. This seems reasonable to me.

[CunningGabe]

Fire comes out *way* ahead, because the only monster you will probably care about in this list are the vampires. I'd add HURT_COLD to Hydras and Nagas. Hydras are tough monsters for their level/reward. This seems reasonable to me.

That's a good point -- I'll add them to the list.

[Magnate]

That's a good point -- I'll add them to the list.

Hi Gabe - are you thinking 3.3 or 3.4 for these changes? If 3.3, pls send a pull request soon ...