Teleport Level breaks game balance

[buzzkill]

I put this in the dev forum as it's a widespread problem not specific to V or any particular variant.

Stacks of teleport level completely break game balance. They are not uncommon in town, and at a ridiculously low price considering their functionality. At almost any point in the game given the choice of having only one to choose from, a scroll of tele level (100 GP) or a useful stat potion (5000+ GP), I'd take tele level every time. I strongly feel these should NOT be sold in stores, not even the BM, and certainly not in stacks and certainly not at the current, absurdly low price.

More than any other item I can think of, a tele level is akin to an extra life. It should be both rare and expensive.

[fizzix]

I put this in the dev forum as it's a widespread problem not specific to V or any particular variant.

Stacks of teleport level completely break game balance. They are not uncommon in town, and at a ridiculously low price considering their functionality. At almost any point in the game given the choice of having only one to choose from, a scroll of tele level (100 GP) or a useful stat potion (5000+ GP), I'd take tele level every time. I strongly feel these should NOT be sold in stores, not even the BM, and certainly not in stacks and certainly not at the current, absurdly low price.

More than any other item I can think of, a tele level is akin to an extra life. It should be both rare and expensive.

I would be fine with this, but in exchange i'd demand ?teleport be sold in the alchemist.

[jens]

I guess people have different tastes... I guess that ?TL is really good, but I usually don't want to leave the level I am on, so I prefer to us ?T. So much so that I usually don't even bother to collect ?TL. I'd say both are too good to sell other than at BM.

[Zyphyr]

Do you also want to remove it from spell books? Or is it primarily a 'screw the warriors' proposal?

[Zikke]

I always squelch ?TeleportLevel in every game I play, and don't cast the spell. I try not to cast Create Stairs either, which is even more cheesy, imo.

[buzzkill]

Do you also want to remove it from spell books? Or is it primarily a 'screw the warriors' proposal?

I must not play a lot of mages, cause I never think about things, such as TL, being available in spellbooks. My focus is on the stores selling stacks of 20+ TL.

Presumably, if you can cast it from a book, you've earned the right to cast it. That come with a mana cost and a failure rate that I'm unfamiliar with, but could certainly be adjusted if it's out of whack. IMO that's a slightly different problem.

My main gripe is that a level 10 character, a newb, a novice, can stumble in whichever store happens to sell TL scrolls in whatever variant you happen to play and buy ~10 of 'em for about ~1000 GP, and become pretty much immortal. He can then pursue insane power diving and take suicidal risks (in search of more game breaking gear) until his supply of TL runs out. It hard to balance the game around such things.

I'm not saying remove TL form the game. I love TL. Just make it special, like the other deep scrolls that can save your life in a pinch.

@Zikke: I agree that create stairs is every bit as screwy, but one can't buy a gross of 'create stairs' (or any at all) at the magic shop.

[Tobias]

I must not play a lot of mages, cause I never think about things, such as TL, being available in spellbooks. My focus is on the stores selling stacks of 20+ TL.

Presumably, if you can cast it from a book, you've earned the right to cast it. That come with a mana cost and a failure rate that I'm unfamiliar with, but could certainly be adjusted if it's out of whack. IMO that's a slightly different problem.

My main gripe is that a level 10 character, a newb, a novice, can stumble in whichever store happens to sell TL scrolls in whatever variant you happen to play and buy ~10 of 'em for about ~1000 GP, and become pretty much immortal. He can then pursue insane power diving and take suicidal risks (in search of more game breaking gear) until his supply of TL runs out. It hard to balance the game around such things.

I'm not saying remove TL form the game. I love TL. Just make it special, like the other deep scrolls that can save your life in a pinch.

@Zikke: I agree that create stairs is every bit as screwy, but one can't buy a gross of 'create stairs' (or any at all) at the magic shop.

I almost never use and never carry ?Tlevel. I prefer normal _Tp.
I also don't relay on scrolls, you can't read when you are confused or blinded after all. So you have to earn the right to use scrolls for escaping, by getting the right resists

[Antoine]

I took ?Teleport Level out of the stores in Quickband for exactly this reason.

A.

[Derakon]

Just keep in mind that Teleport Level is by no means a panacea. I routinely find that when I'm in dire enough straits to need to use it once, I have to use it at least another time because the first time dumped me into a situation that I can't handle in my weakened state (e.g. pack of hounds in LOS, adjacent to a nasty pit, etc.).

That said, I wouldn't especially mind it being less common and/or more expensive. I do buy all the scrolls of it I see in the BM.

[dos350]

excuse me, i dont see wat the hype is..

if u think ?tele lvl is pro leet, try ?detect treasure and a staircase,

please~ no rage!

also, deep decent >

[buzzkill]

I've found deep decent to be uncommon compared to TL, but I'd support DD not being sold in stacks either.

[EpicMan]

Add a turn or two's delay to the Tlevel kicking in (like WoR, but only a couple of turns instead of 50 or whatever it is). So it's not an instant "Get out of Jail free" button, there are already plenty of those (*Destruction*, Banishment/Mass Banishment).

[Derakon]

Given how the game works, there's functionally little difference between a 1- or 2-turn delay and a 50-turn delay. Either you need the escape right now, or you can wait an indeterminate amount of time.

In other words, changing TL to have a delay would make it largely useless as an escape, just as WoR is largely useless as an escape.

[jens]

I think it's a great idea, and won't make it useless at all. OK, it might not be among the best escapes any more, but often you have a turn or two, at least in earlier levels. Say you need to get away from some monster that is quicker than you. When I use a WoR as an escpae it can be really intense, I am almost out of ?PD, I can take one more hit, there I used my last ?PD, I run into an unexplored direction, my nemesis will catch up with me in 3 turns, oh no another monster comes from the dark, check inventory, gah I'll eat that shroom and hope for the best. Recal, phew, calm now. Those escapes are good :-)

[Derakon]

Yeah, but in earlier levels is when Teleport Level isn't available. Right now it's the escape of last resort for that very broad section between when Teleport becomes way too dangerous to consider using and when scrolls of Destruction become available. Much of that section includes "Oh crap, X appeared out of nowhere and summoned Y nasties; if I spend another turn here I'm dead."

Maybe everyone else is more willing to consider using the random Teleport than I am? I only carry staves of Teleport because in randart games pBlind/pConf generally aren't available, and they're the only usable escapes for that situation (well, and staves of Destruction, but again those aren't available for a long time).