EyAngband item prefixes

[jens]

Two things:

1) So you can't find Mithril Boots of Stealth any more? I always kinda assumed that mithril armor had all the advantages of both hard and soft armor, though I could be convinced otherwise.

In this file (which is not yet compatible with the game) you can't. I could be convinced otherwise though, I like mithril*. But then if mithril is all that good, why don't elves use it when they do their best boots?

2) I suspect this will decrease the frequency of junk egos later on since they have relevant max depth caps now. Not a huge issue so long as this isn't enabling really powerful egos to become significantly more frequent...

Yes, this might be an issue. I have tried to balance it so there will be significant rarity ratios all the way down. But a direct effect of there being less junk is that there is more good stuff. If I've done a good job the good stuff comes just at the right time, and in just the right amount.

*I have made, and plan to make more, sets of egos for mithril only. I've always felt when I see some mithril item gleeming on the floor that I've found a prize. Then it just turns out to be some quite ordinary armour. Adding egos in this fashion is very good too, because when targetting a specific object only, it becomes very rare quite naturally.

[Derakon]

I like the idea of mithril-only egos, just as I like the idea of DSM-only egos. They just need to be balanced.

The elves didn't use mithril much because only the dwarves had the skills to work it, not to mention the mines to find it.

[jens]

The elves didn't use mithril much because only the dwarves had the skills to work it, not to mention the mines to find it.

Aha, I see, so your argument is that since dwarves are so good at stealth they can easily make Mithril Shod Boots of stealth?

[Derakon]

...uh. Nnnnnot exactly what I had in mind.

The one well-known armor of mithril in the books is Frodo's vest, and it's basically a magical T-shirt as far as sound is concerned. Granted it's also flexible (being maille instead of plate).

[Timo Pietilä]

The elves didn't use mithril much because only the dwarves had the skills to work it, not to mention the mines to find it.

Elves did have skill, but not access. Only place in middle-earth where you could obtain Mithril was Mines of Moria. Elves did use mithril in several places like in those Moria door texts (something to do with moonlight illuminating them or somesuch, can't remember just now).

There is no mention about Aman having mithril, but nobody denied it either. Telling that "only place in Middle Earth was Moria" indicates that there are other places as well, and those have to be outside middle-earth, which had to be Aman. Or not. Maybe Numenor had Mithril also.

[jens]

The Gwaith-i-Mírdain, i.e. the Jewel-smiths, were elven smiths who worked closely with the dwarves of Moria. Then Sauron came along and taught them to become really good at it :-)

I've always thought of Middle Earth as refering to one continent, thus there might well be deposits on other continents as well.

[Magnate]

The earlier the better for me, then I can get to work on other stuff I want to do ;-) But there might of course be some balancing issues, so a week before 3.3 might be a bad time. As long as it doesn't get sitting for months, because then It might get obsolete by other changes to ego_item.txt.

If you are this interested in contributing to development, dive into the code itself. It looks horrific at first, but it doesn't take long to understand it a piece at a time, and you'll be amazed at how quickly you can make changes which actually compile and work. I had never touched a .c file before joining the devteam - I hadn't written any code in any language since Commodore BASIC about twenty years earlier - so it really is possible.

If you have an IRC client and can stop by #angband-dev at irc.freenode.net, we'll be happy to help you get to grips with it. Choose a small ticket first and see how you get on. If you're interested I can offer some suggestions.

I say this not to discourage you from your current contributions, but because you will soon outpace our ability to incorporate them.

[jens]

I've been thinking about it (and still am) but I hate setting up the development environment. Especially in C, it's always a hassle to get things to compile... I am taking some baby steps in this direction though. More and more so when I feel I need to test something before suggesting it.

Then there is always the facts of life... At the moment I choose to have a lot of free time, but it can't continue for ever... One of my worries is that if I involve myself too much I'll discover too late that I have to get a life as well

[Magnate]

I've been thinking about it (and still am) but I hate setting up the development environment. Especially in C, it's always a hassle to get things to compile... I am taking some baby steps in this direction though. More and more so when I feel I need to test something before suggesting it.

Then there is always the facts of life... At the moment I choose to have a lot of free time, but it can't continue for ever... One of my worries is that if I involve myself too much I'll discover too late that I have to get a life as well

Yeah, I definitely recommend having a life first and arranging your involvement around it, rather than vice versa.

On the dev environment .... are you Windows-based? I understand that MinGW isn't particularly hard to set up and get going, but if you happen to be able to use Linux (even if only as a non-default boot), I'm happy to help.

[jens]

On the dev environment .... are you Windows-based? I understand that MinGW isn't particularly hard to set up and get going, but if you happen to be able to use Linux (even if only as a non-default boot), I'm happy to help.

Yes, windows. I have compiled the game with MinGW, so I can manage some small changes in the code. But I prefer using an IDE, preferably Eclipse. I have it set up already, but could not compile in it. btw, those project files you posted, how do I go about using them? And would they work for Eclipse on windows?

[jens]

When the A: lines are added, it should be as simple as adding a single parse_e_a function to the parse_ego code, to get them read in. Actually using them then requires some changes to the code in make_ego_item, but it shouldn't be too much work.

Could you try to fit in that first fix, so the file can enter staging? I was happy to note you've been working with NO_MINIMUM, but it also means my file is already getting harder to merge...

[Magnate]

Yes, windows. I have compiled the game with MinGW, so I can manage some small changes in the code. But I prefer using an IDE, preferably Eclipse. I have it set up already, but could not compile in it. btw, those project files you posted, how do I go about using them? And would they work for Eclipse on windows?

I didn't know eclipse even ran on Windows! First, you need the C Development Toolkit ("eclipse-cdt"). Then, you'll probably need to rename the .project and .cproject files to something more DOS-like (maybe PROJECT.INI and CPRO~1.INI or whatever). Then you may need to install or tweak something so that eclipse knows that minGW is your compiler toolchain. Then it might work.

The project files are not terribly important - you can create an eclipse project from scratch by pointing it at your source tree and following the docs to create one. The key bit is understanding that eclipse is not a compiler (nor a linker, debugger, etc.), so you have to know how to tell it to interact properly with minGW.

Sorry - on Linux it Just Works.

That said, I don't use eclipse much at all, except for hardcore debugging. I do all my hacking and compiling from the command line. But then again that relies on grep, which doesn't exist on Windows (maybe it's part of minGW?).

[Magnate]

Could you try to fit in that first fix, so the file can enter staging? I was happy to note you've been working with NO_MINIMUM, but it also means my file is already getting harder to merge...

Yeah I fixed #1394 for you today (and also #1471), so you'll need to update your changes to the new file (there are only a dozen or so extra M: lines). I can't promise to add the parsing code, but OTOH I've closed all my 3.3 tickets so I might manage it while I'm waiting for the others ...

[myshkin]

I didn't know eclipse even ran on Windows! First, you need the C Development Toolkit ("eclipse-cdt"). Then, you'll probably need to rename the .project and .cproject files to something more DOS-like (maybe PROJECT.INI and CPRO~1.INI or whatever). Then you may need to install or tweak something so that eclipse knows that minGW is your compiler toolchain. Then it might work.

One of the points of Eclipse was that it runs pretty much anywhere. As far as I can tell, without actually installing Eclipse + CDT, the Windows versions thereof are perfectly happy with .project/.cproject.

That said, I don't use eclipse much at all, except for hardcore debugging. I do all my hacking and compiling from the command line. But then again that relies on grep, which doesn't exist on Windows (maybe it's part of minGW?).

findstr is available in the Command shell and not too bad for basic use. PowerShell's Select-String cmdlet looks pretty good. Cygwin will provide all the standard GNU tools you want, and there are also many grep clones, both CLI and GUI.
See Stack Overflow for a selection of them.

[jens]

Yeah I fixed #1394 for you today (and also #1471), so you'll need to update your changes to the new file (there are only a dozen or so extra M: lines). I can't promise to add the parsing code, but OTOH I've closed all my 3.3 tickets so I might manage it while I'm waiting for the others ...

Well, here's hoping I didn't sleep through your window of opportunity