Tip for developers.

[The GP Fury]

I always just ignored all that stuff when I was using MSVC with DaJAngband.

VC++ tends to be a lot more strict when it compiles. A lot of the stuff that GCC takes it rejects, especially when it comes to declaring variables.

At the moment I've got FuryBand compiling with VC++ 6.0 in a VM since it doesn't work on Windows 7. I'm in the process of getting it to work with 2008 so I don't need a VM anymore.

Oh, and Windows 7 is amazing. I've been using Windows since Windows/286, and it's definitely the best yet. I've tried linux, but don't really see how it's going to take over till it gets a little more consistent. Not a fan of OS X at all.

[Magnate]

Before replying to this, I have to thank Derakon for the best one-line post I've seen in a long time ...

2. The command line interface is *not* archaic. It's older, but that doesn't mean it's worse. Yes, it takes more know-how, but when you do know how it's much more convenient to do certain things by CLI than by GUI. For an example of what I'm talking about, see YAST, which (despite OpenSuSE generally being good) makes system configuration clunky and inconvenient. I should add that there is a reason that Microsoft created Powershell, and it wasn't "because they could".

What he said. What we really need is an OS that gently teaches users how to use the command line, rather than trying to give them everything in a GUI applet (which is the case with all of Windows, MacOS, Gnome and KDE).

Synaptic is pretty good for GUI package admin though.

3. Windows 7 is actually pretty good. I can't say it's more user-friendly than XP, but it's certainly more administrator-friendly, offering more configurability and hiding less from the user.

Hmmm. My original comment was more about admin-friendly than user-friendly (which was subsequently interpreted as a discussion of bundled apps - not what I meant at all). I'm quite prepared to believe that Win7 *could* be more powerful, flexible and admin-friendly than any previous version - Powershell is pretty much all the convincing I need. But its *default* behaviour is to hide everything from the user and prevent them doing anything. The fact that I have to read an internet tutorial, despite 30 years of computer literacy, to find out how to make it more admin-friendly is ... not friendly. Admin capability is deliberately obscured instead of being helpfully signposted. Compare with Gnome/KDE where every admin function is visible, and simply asks for the root pw where necessary (and then offers to configure things so you only need to type it once per session).

[Tiburon Silverflame]

The command line isn't archaic in itself; Linux commands, however, are. Or, perhaps better to say, they're HIGHLY jargonistic.

The "tutorial command line OS" is still FAR more of an investment, to learn to use the computer, than many people want to make. It's a fair bet that most of us in here are computer geeks. We number few novice or even intermediate-level folks. We learn this stuff because we *like* it. But I think it's still true that we're not the norm.

I'll actually further argue that nuts and bolts-level people are becoming *scarcer* now. While the ability to use a computer, with reasonable effectiveness, is becoming more common, it's within that "do everything for you and hide all the details" GUI context. This is also true in programming; you don't use the nuts and bolts, you use the pre-written gadgets and widgets through the API. There are sound reasons for this.

One of my MAJOR!!! gripes with Vista is the way they went overboard with trying to be 'smart.' One small but consistently aggravating example is the way soooo damn many folder windows get interpreted as 'media' folders...so the display columns are Title, Author, Album, and the like. There's not 1 damn audio file IN HERE, you stupid PoS OS.

I also agree that Windows seems to go out of its way to make things hard for an advanced user, to adjust how it operates, and that is a Very Bad Thing. One thing I like about Gnome is, the GUI helps facilitate the easy stuff, without being the interfering busybody.

[konijn_]

Followup on VS2008 compilation: some really annoying warnings, repeating 215 times in total.

Type 1:
..\z-rand.c(290) : warning C4244: '=' : conversion from 'long' to 's16b', possible loss of data
Type 1a:
..\object\randart.c(1093) : warning C4244: '+=' : conversion from 's32b' to 's16b', possible loss of data
(randart.c is particularly guilty on this.)
Type 2: Can get rid of this with #define _CRT_SECURE_NO_WARNINGS
Reduces warning count to 105.
..\z-form.c(375) : warning C4996: 'sprintf': This function or variable may be unsafe. Consider using sprintf_s instead. To disable deprecation, use _CRT_SECURE_NO_WARNINGS. See online help for details.
c:\Program Files\Microsoft Visual Studio 9.0\VC\include\stdio.h(366) : see declaration of 'sprintf'
Type 3:
..\z-file.c(517) : warning C4996: 'fileno': The POSIX name for this item is deprecated. Instead, use the ISO C++ conformant name: _fileno. See online help for details.
c:\Program Files\Microsoft Visual Studio 9.0\VC\include\stdio.h(722) : see declaration of 'fileno'
Type 4:
..\util.c(2511) : warning C4550: expression evaluates to a function which is missing an argument list
Type 5:
..\ui-birth.c(350) : warning C4090: 'function' : different 'const' qualifiers
Type 6:
warning C4090: '=' : different 'const' qualifiers

They should get fixed.
If we can all agree that angband source should be modified so that it can compile under MSVC, I am willing to provide patches for these warnings.

T.

[Pete Mack]

They should get fixed.
If we can all agree that angband source should be modified so that it can compile under MSVC, I am willing to provide patches for these warnings.

T.

As am I. At the very least, a rename of player/util.c.