Comp 196

[debo]

Comp 196 is up. It's a Sil 1.3 comp in which the goal is to smash the existing high-scores for 1.3 on any ladder, competition or otherwise.

GLHF

[Psi]

I just got killed by an orc scout. Not sure that's ever happened to me before. It rolled 18 on 2d10 (usually 1d10) which was way more than I had left.

[debo]

They were buffed in 1.3 iirc. The spear-die for their damage might be new? I think Easterling spies also became decent archers now.

[Psi]

Didn't realise just how dangerous whispering shadows were either. 2d6 ignoring armour can take you down very fast when there is more than one and you can't see them despite radius 4 light... All I did was try and close a door to contain them and two of them touched me for a combined 17. That one was looking promising too...

[ranger jeff]

Yeah what the shit with the whispering shadows?!? Twice now about 400-600 feet looking good then 20 points down in a round and dead and didn't even see them (or the three of them...)

And yeah, I've added a factor of 10 to my Sil playtime, and still not getting it, with this character at least. Having fun, don't get me wrong, unexpected death is the best! Close-to-Vanilla variants can be boring. Monster movement in Sil is amazing, it's like everything is a hound that will appear out of nowhere right behind you when you're already facing off against a room-full ahead. Makes a lot less controllable. And no escapes.

So, after many attempts all ending in the 400-700 ft region, I have some idea what build I'm trying for, let me know if I'm wrong. And no, I'm not going for the highest score/fastest win, just having a good go at a Silmaril would be great.

Smithing - 2 for weapons only, though it seems like 4 for jewelry might be good, or that nothing and save the xp might be better, not sure

Archery - 7 for Flame Arrows is a huge damage boost in mid-levels. Heck will all that Dex this character might make an archer all the way! Or at least get Precision and/or Crippling shot? Or again, nothing, save the xp?

Perception - 7 for Greater Lore, because I know nothing about this Sil, but actually, it may not be a bad idea even if I were a Sil veteran, just so nice to have everything identified.

XP is definitely limited, right? Only so many monsters and diminishing returns for encountering/killing. So I have to be economical with skill and ability investments, hrmmm...

All the dark stuff, is this another reason to take Smithing to forge lamps? I've taken Inner Light, but it doesn't help that much by itself. And Rauko seriously piss me off. Rauko Bane? !True Sight are few and far between, Keen Senses helps a little, SI didn't seem to do much.

Most fun I've had so far was finding a 1d8 short sword of Galadriel, +3 evasion and riposte, I got parry and finesse and with 2 strength and a 2 lb weapon was double and triple critting twice a turn for 50 damage a couple times, and hardly ever getting touched. Then the whispering shadows got me, dammit. The corridor of them was easy, it was when I stepped up to the edge of the room and 3 hit me at once. Not that I could see them until the death screen showed me the room ahead, full of them. Now I know, not worth it. Like Hounds of Tindalos. You think you're good... then you're most definitely not good, fast.

What about a blindfighting ability?!? Some way at least to not halve the evasion AND cut through armor.

I'm also tempted to build towards whirlwind+crowd fighting, opportunist, controlled retreat, flanking, follow through, riposte, etc. The extra attacks, with Song of Slaying, could produce some incredible bonuses, I'd guess.

Rest of the build:
20 Melee
20 Evasion
7 Stealth for Opportunist
12 Song for Sharpness for the Silmaril (Sond of Weaving, too?)
12 Will for 1d2 Hardiness and Constitution
Rapid Attack and Momentum towards Morgoth and the climb out

Feels solid but I'm guessing in Sil a lot comes down to luck.

[wobbly]

What about a blindfighting ability?!? Some way at least to not halve the evasion AND cut through armor.

You can blindfight a bit if you have listen. It's not perfect but it's not too bad either.

[Psi]

@jeff, that would be a very strong build, but you may find the cost of all of those abilities somewhat prohibitive. What you take will also depend on what you find, your Galadriel situation being the perfect example (likewise if Ringil shows up). +6 evasion from your weapon propels you down the high evasion/riposte build route.

Smithing (at least in a time pressured game) is only worth it if you are short of arrows or as you say if you have some spare mithril and could do with a feanorian lamp.

[debo]

With more than 2wks left -- how do folks feel about opening this comp to "pick whatever race / stats you want" and ditching the starting save file? Maybe that will improve participation a bit

[nikheizen]

With more than 2wks left -- how do folks feel about opening this comp to "pick whatever race / stats you want" and ditching the starting save file? Maybe that will improve participation a bit

Yes please.

[Psi]

With more than 2wks left -- how do folks feel about opening this comp to "pick whatever race / stats you want" and ditching the starting save file? Maybe that will improve participation a bit

Certainly open to that. Personally I find 3 STR more conducive to diving - more damage output, less disarming and easier to escape pits and webs. Also it will erase my memory of all the consumable flavours I now know almost by heart!

[debo]

OK, updating now.

[bron]

My $0.02:

Yeah what the shit with the whispering shadows?!?

Yeah; it took me far too many deaths to realize you just have to stay away from them. If there seem to be only one or two, or if you can still see them, its probably ok to try and clear them out. But if they've had time to multiply, just write it off and leave. Fortunately, they don't open doors, so you can usually contain the infestation.

Smithing - 2 for weapons only, though it seems like 4 for jewelry might be good, or that nothing and save the xp might be better, not sure

If you're going with a Feanor starting character, I would definitely take Weaponsmithing rather than nothing. It's only 300 exp. Make a longbow, a mattock, and some arrows at the first forge, and use any other forges you run across to make more arrows as needed. Taking Jewelry is not bad, but most of the useful things to smith require a higher smithing investment than just the 4 points you need to take Jewelery, so I don't go that route. Unless I find an enchanted forge and some mithril (as in my first competition char).

Archery - 7 for Flame Arrows is a huge damage boost in mid-levels. Heck will all that Dex this character might make an archer all the way! Or at least get Precision and/or Crippling shot? Or again, nothing, save the xp?

With any of the Noldor, I'd go with at least Flaming Arrows. The ability is free, and the 7 skill points is 2800 xp. Certainly not free, but not very expensive. And with the way archery works, 7 skill plus the Dex plus the affinity bonus is enough to hit most targets most of the time. And coupled with forging arrows, you can generally use it pretty liberally.

Perception - 7 for Greater Lore, because I know nothing about this Sil, but actually, it may not be a bad idea even if I were a Sil veteran, just so nice to have everything identified.

I almost always take Loremaster. It's useful to have at least some perception so you don't run into quite as many traps. And it's hard to find hidden doors and open chests without it. Just be sure to use the Secret Tech and drop a lamp on the floor first. Also, I find that with 7 Perception and Keen Senses, I don't need a True Sight item, which helps a lot with the equipment choices (e.g. I can wield a lamp of Brightness and a helm of Defiance). I think that Loremaster also gives you full monster information, which can be good to know.

All the dark stuff, is this another reason to take Smithing to forge lamps? I've taken Inner Light, but it doesn't help that much by itself. And Rauko seriously piss me off. Rauko Bane? !True Sight are few and far between, Keen Senses helps a little, SI didn't seem to do much.

True Sight, Keen Senses, and See Invisible do NOT help against Dark. The monsters are not invisible. Listen can help some. The best is to get a Feanorian lamp of brightness. Preferably two of them, so you can drop one on the floor in addition to the one you wield. Barring that, I find the Song of the Trees is usually a better investment than Inner Light. Running away is also good. And dying is always an option (see my first competition char for example).

I'm also tempted to build towards whirlwind+crowd fighting, opportunist, controlled retreat, flanking, follow through, riposte, etc. The extra attacks, with Song of Slaying, could produce some incredible bonuses, I'd guess.

I don't like Whirlwind, since the restrictions on using it dictate that you fight in the middle of a room surrounded by enemies, which seems like a very bad idea on the face of it. Ditto with Crowd Fighting: why would I deliberately fight in a crowd? Herbs of Rage are a better choice for those times when you need to do it. I generally only take Crowd Fighting because it is a pre-requiste for Exchange Places, which is a great skill for getting out of some very bad situations. The other abilities are a matter of style and choice. Individually each is good; all of them would be mighty expensive.

Rest of the build:
20 Melee
20 Evasion
7 Stealth for Opportunist
12 Song for Sharpness for the Silmaril (Sond of Weaving, too?)
12 Will for 1d2 Hardiness and Constitution
Rapid Attack and Momentum towards Morgoth and the climb out

Note you only need 6 Stealth for Opportunist (7 for Exchange Places), and only 10 Song for Sharpness (12 for Woven Themes). Personally, I don't find Woven Themes to be worth the cost, at least not for a combat character. For a Song heavy pacifist character it might be different. And I personally don't favor the Con point in Will. I used to do it a lot, but it's just too dang expensive for me.

[debo]

Congrats to bron on taking third and then clinching first in the twilight hours of the comp, and to Psi for a solid second-place finish.