Competitions 89 and 90

[Nick]

Sorry Nick.

Hey, Timo submitted the savefiles - I just miswrote the blurb.

[Magnate]

Hmmm, IMO that's a bug. Reported as #1167.

In case anyone is reading this, it looks like the bug is with preserve mode itself, not with the knowledge menu. I've tested by using cheat_peek, and artifacts which are left on the floor unIDd are preserved when leaving the level, even if preserve is off.

Sorry Nick.

[Magnate]

(The history isn't showing lost artifacts that were never detected in Preserve off mode.)

Hmmm, IMO that's a bug. Reported as #1167.

[Pete Mack]

Damn Draebor!
He just teleported me out of a "Reward is Worth It" vault; I lost Carlammas, Hammerhand, and the Phial, at least. (The history isn't showing lost artifacts that were never detected in Preserve off mode.)

Also lost some other stuff I don't care about. (Avavir, Camlost, etc)

[Pete Mack]

Have reached drolem depth, now need to dive fast to get detection.
I do wish that you had spent a few points on CON, rather than completely maximizing STR and WIS.

I also wish I had some more dex.
Current weapon:
A Whip (+13, +10)(+2) {splendid}
+2 STR, CON, DEX
Grants the ability to see invisible things

3 blows/round
an additional 2 str and 9 dex would grant 4 blows

[bron]

I'm not at all convinced that one extra blow means anything. Especially when played with active turns (you can use OoD a lot more).

I think that's really sort of the point. The lack of the second blow for the HT, and the choice of using active turns, both reduce some of the advantages that a HT could have had relative to a dwarf.

[Pete Mack]

Have reached drolem depth, now need to dive fast to get detection.
I do wish that you had spent a few points on CON, rather than completely maximizing STR and WIS.

[Timo Pietilä]

I'm getting the impression this competition is biased in favor of the race that Timo was trying to prove makes for better priests. Using active turns makes the troll's regeneration nowhere near as significant a factor (normally it's one of the troll's best attributes),

When I talk about fast game I don't mean some artificial turncount calculation. I mean how it is perceived by the player, IE. resting takes practically no time which means active turns is only reasonable way to somehow count how fast you are.

and biasing the troll against combat loses him the major starting advantage of being capable in melee, which makes diving much more feasible in the early game.

I'm not at all convinced that one extra blow means anything. Especially when played with active turns (you can use OoD a lot more). Anyway, with maxed WIS troll still needs only a bit more STR to get second blow with light weapon, which is what my char currently has and I'm only at 1000'. With Dwarf I would still have only one blow (but more OoD to compensate).

In fact H-Troll regeneration do make a difference. I have fought some battles already that I couldn't have won with Dwarf. I really don't know which is better. H-Troll Priest seem to be better than I expected.

[Derakon]

I'm getting the impression this competition is biased in favor of the race that Timo was trying to prove makes for better priests. Using active turns makes the troll's regeneration nowhere near as significant a factor (normally it's one of the troll's best attributes), and biasing the troll against combat loses him the major starting advantage of being capable in melee, which makes diving much more feasible in the early game.

Of course, the use of non-preserve mode penalizes diving in general. I'm not sure what to think about that.

I'm not participating in the comp since I just finished playing a priest, mind. This does seem a bit odd though.

[bron]

You can't get second blow with dwarf, no matter how you put your stats, and for priest high WIS is more important than one blow anyway.

My bad; somehow I thought a dwarf could get 2 blows - don't know where my head was on that one.

That said however, I think that it makes the point even stronger. If the comp is supposed to be trying to explore the differences between a dwarf's better priestly abilities and a half-troll's better fighting ability, I don't think it make a good comparison to start out by crippling the half-troll's fighting ability.

And I completely disagree with your statement that the high WIS is more important than the second blow. A disagreement that (should have been) the whole point of the comp.

[Timo Pietilä]

I just downloaded the starting files, and I gotta ask: would anyone ever start out a character with these stats? IMHO the second blow is way more important than the higher wisdom. At least both chars are crippled in the same way ..

You can't get second blow with dwarf, no matter how you put your stats, and for priest high WIS is more important than one blow anyway. Half-Troll could get extra blow, but it would mean very low WIS (max 17), which would hurt you later a lot. Especially if you play with RL fast game instead of artificial turncount tuning.

[bron]

I just downloaded the starting files, and I gotta ask: would anyone ever start out a character with these stats? IMHO the second blow is way more important than the higher wisdom. At least both chars are crippled in the same way ..

[Pete Mack]

That's fine - nobody minds how you get around the town. (I think you mean Active Turns, since resting increments Player Turns)

I meant Active turns--sorry for not specifying. Using Active turns also makes Orb of Draining a real winner compared with just about anything else for damage. In fact, it makes just about every kind of spell casting a complete winner. Of course, this favors the dwarf over the troll, as if that weren't already the case...


@Timo -- up to ~1750', portal is the best way to get around the dungeon. After that, it depends on how strong your character is. My character is way too weak and un-stealthy for random jumps at gravity hound depth.

[Magnate]

It turns out that I can really optimize town movement with a combination of Rest & portal.
Want to go to the other side of town? Rest to full MP, then portal until you get close. Then repeat...

That's fine - nobody minds how you get around the town. (I think you mean Active Turns, since resting increments Player Turns)

[Timo Pietilä]

It turns out that I can really optimize town movement with a combination of Rest & portal.
Want to go to the other side of town? Rest to full MP, then portal until you get close. Then repeat...

And that takes you real time just as little as it takes turns. So that is probably fastest way to do that. Thanks for the tip, never considered that one.

You can in fact do that same in dungeon if you want to risk death by teleporting in LoS of some nasties.