[comp 64] stuck in the middle with Cain (spoily)

[Donald Jonker]

Hi fellow Entroband survivors,

So I'm at a point in my game where I typically don't know where to turn.

Here's my dump, reproduced below.

I've finished the Yeek Cave, dived in Angband as far as Robin Hood and Nar, did a few of the early quests, but haven't taken on the Vault Quest as I haven't gotten any darkness items, so I can't really use Sting yet. Smeagol dropped a pretty bomb xbow which I've been using on uniques - sadly ninjas can't get proficient in them, but it'll be useful for a while yet.

Right now I've mainly been dipping into the dragon lair, but it's been slow going, and lately my chars have been dying off due to randomly running into rogue badasses there. I'm contemplating going after the Arena's ?acquirement and reading it in R'lyeh, but the only time I did that successfully was with Sting, so I'm wary to try it without it.

Any advice on what to do now? I seem to be stagnating, not really running into any statpots or good equipment in the dragon's lair, and so not getting decent enough equipment to dive further or cash to upgrade my equipment in town.

  [Entroband 1.7.1 Character Dump]

                          Name  : Combat Daywalker2

 Sex      : Male             Age               114   STR :   18/78
 Race     : Vampire          Height             69   INT :      18
 Class    : Ninja            Weight            185   WIS :       9
                             Social Class        4   DEX :   18/56
                             Align         Chaotic   CON :   18/62
                                                     CHR :      17

 Right hand      (+23,+14)   Hit point    230/ 230   Fighting   : Superb
                             SP (Mana)      0/   0   Bows/Throw : Heroic
 Blows/Round           3+0                           SavingThrow: Superb
 AverageDmg/Rnd       49+0   Level              24   Stealth    : Legendary[12]
                             Experience      23995
 Shooting        (+19,+16)   Max Exp         23995   Perception : Superb
 Multiplier          x3.12   Exp to Adv      27500   Searching  : Superb
 Shots/Round          1.66   Gold             7308   Disarming  : Superb
                                                     MagicDevice: Superb
 AC               [16,+64]   Time      Day 3 12:44
 Speed               (+10)   Play time    01:40:00   Infra-Vision: 50 feet


                         (Character Background)
          In life you were a powerful noble.  You have a hairless
          head, blank white eyes, and a deathly pale complexion.



          ...Now, you are in Telmora.


                                                               Modification
 Sex   : Male          Stat    BaseRacClaPerMod ActualCurrent  abcdefghijkl@
 Race  : Vampire       STR :  18/38  3  0  1  0  18/78         .............
 Class : Ninja         INT :     17  3 -1 -1  0     18         .............
 Level : 24            WIS :     10 -1 -1 -2  3      9         3............
 Hits  : 230/230       DEX :  18/16 -1  3  2  0  18/56         .............
 Mana  : 0/0           CON :  18/32  1  2  0  0  18/62         .............
                       CHR :     15  2 -1  1  0     17         .............
         | }==  ((]]              | }==  ((]]                  | }==  ((]]
         abcdefghijkl@            abcdefghijkl@                abcdefghijkl@
 Acid  : .......+.....    Sound : .............    Speed     : ..+.+.......+
 Elec  : .......+.....    Nether: ............+    FreeAction: .............
 Fire  : ..+....+.....    Nexus : .............    SeeInvisi.: +............
 Cold  : ..+....+....+    Chaos : .............    Hold Life : ............+
 Poison: ..+.........+    Disnch: .............    Warning   : .............
 Light : ...+.........v   Fear  : +...........+    SlowDigest: ............+
 Dark  : ...+........*    Reflct: .............    Regene.   : .............
 Shard : .......+.....    AuFire: .............    Levitation: .............
 Blind : .............    AuElec: .............    Perm Lite : .............
 Conf  : .............    AuCold: .............    Cursed    : .............

             |                  | }==  ((]]                    | }==  ((]]
             ab@                abcdefghijkl@                  abcdefghijkl@
 Slay Evil : +..    Telepathy : .............    Add Blows   : .............
 Slay Und. : +..    ESP Evil  : .............    Add Tunnel  : .............
 Slay Demon: +..    ESP Noliv.: .............    Add Infra   : .............
 Slay Drag.: ...    ESP Good  : .............    Add Device  : .............
 Slay Human: ...    ESP Undead: .............    Add Stealth : .......++....
 Slay Anim.: ...    ESP Demon : .............    Add Search  : ........+....
 Slay Orc  : ...    ESP Dragon: .............
 Slay Troll: ...    ESP Human : .............    Riding      : .............
 Slay Giant: ...    ESP Animal: .............    Throw       : .............
 Acid Brand: ...    ESP Orc   : .............    Blessed     : +............
 Elec Brand: ...    ESP Troll : .............    No Teleport : .............
 Fire Brand: ...    ESP Giant : .............    Anti Magic  : .............
 Cold Brand: ...                                 Econom. Mana: .............
 Poison Brd: ...    Sust Str  : .............
 Sharpness : ...    Sust Int  : .............    Drain Exp   : .............
 Quake     : ...    Sust Wis  : .............    Rnd.Teleport: .............
 Vampiric  : ...    Sust Dex  : .............    Aggravate   : .............
 Chaotic   : ...    Sust Con  : .............    TY Curse    : .............
 Force Wep.: ...    Sust Chr  : .............

        
  [Option Settings]

 Preserve Mode:      ON
 Small Levels:       ENABLED
 Arena Levels:       ENABLED


  [Recall Depth]

    Angband         : level  13
   !Yeek cave       : level  13
    Dragon's lair   : level  34
    Castle          : level  20


  [Quest Information]

< Completed Quest >
  Thieves Hideout                          (Danger  level:   5) - level  3
  Warg problem                             (Danger  level:   5) - level 10
  Robin Hood, the Outlaw                   (Dungeon level:   6) - level 15
  Nar, the Dwarf                           (Dungeon level:  12) - level 15
  Orc Camp                                 (Danger  level:  15) - level 15
  Old Man Willow Quest                     (Danger  level:  22) - level 22
  The Sewer                                (Danger  level:  15) - level 24
  Logrus Master                            (Danger  level:  25) - level 24
  Vapor Quest                              (Danger  level:  25) - level 24

< Failed Quest >
  Nothing.


 Arena:  0 Victory


  [Defeated Monsters]

You have defeated 555 enemies including 13 unique monsters in total.

< Unique monsters top 10 >
  Old Man Willow                           (level  22)
  Nar, the Dwarf                           (level  17)
  Boldor, King of the Yeeks                (level  13)
  Golfimbul, the Hill Orc Chief            (level  12)
  Meng Huo, the King of Southerings        (level  12)
  Grishnakh, the Hill Orc                  (level  10)
  Hobbes the Tiger                         (level  10)
  The Borshin                              (level  10)
  Robin Hood, the Outlaw                   (level   8)
  Lagduf, the Orc                          (level   8)


  [Virtues]

Your alighnment : Chaotic

You are virtuous in Patience.
You are virtuous in Knowledge.
You are somewhat virtuous in Faith.
You are somewhat virtuous in Unlife.
You have sinned against Valour.
You are somewhat virtuous in Justice.
You are an arch-enemy of Honour.
You are an arch-enemy of Compassion.


  [Character Equipment]

a) a Dagger (Holy Avenger) (1d4) (+8,+10) [+2] (+3)
b) (nothing)
c) The Light Crossbow 'Oompaksgar' (x3) (+14,+16) [+9] (+3 to speed)
{Smeagol200'}
d) a Ring of Light and Darkness Resistance
e) a Ring of Speed (+2)
f) (nothing)
g) (nothing)
h) Rhino Hide Armour of Elvenkind (-1) [8,+18] (+3 to stealth)
i) an Elven Cloak [4,+10] (+4 to stealth)
j) a Hard Leather Cap [2,+3]
k) a Set of Gauntlets [2,+2]
l) (nothing)


  [Character Inventory]

a) a Potion of Speed {!k}
b) 11 Potions of Cure Critical Wounds {25% off}
c) 3 Scrolls of Word of Recall {!*!*}
d) 2 Scrolls of Identify {@r1}
e) 7 Scrolls of Magic Mapping {@r0}
f) 5 Scrolls of Holy Chant
g) a Wand of Teleport Other (10 charges)
h) a Wand of Disarming (7 charges)
i) a Staff of Teleportation (7 charges)
j) a Ring of Confusion Resistance
k) 70 Bolts (1d5) (+0,+0) (59/98) {@f0}
l) 75 Iron Spikes (37/48) {@v0}


  [Home Inventory]

 ( page 1 )
a) a Potion of Enlightenment
b) a Rod of Detection
c) a Rod of Disarming
d) a Ring of Levitation
e) a Ring of Sustain Strength and Regeneration
f) a Ring of Dexterity (+1)
g) a Set of Gauntlets of Magic Mastery [2,+9] (+1)
h) a Rapier of Extra Attacks (1d6) (+9,+7) (+1 attack)

[Cave Man]

You already have +10 speed! Get down to lvl72 of the dragons lair asap - you just need to look out for dragon hordes (generated awake). Do this until you think you're ready to dive angband, or do the cloning pits. Check all new staffs - once you have a staff of destruction, you can handle most situations.

[chem]

You already have +10 speed! Get down to lvl72 of the dragons lair asap - you just need to look out for dragon hordes (generated awake).

I think he may be looking for tips on _what_ to do at dlvl 72 with 230hp, too. I guess you just go floor item hunting and pick off the occasional easy monster? Teleporting / retreating a lot when you see nasty things awake?

Our playstyles are very different; I would probably be hanging out at 1500' in Angband killing off uniques, gathering gold for the black market, and gaining XP/stat potions, slowly working my way down. There is a particularly hard random quest around 1200', though. I usually play characters with bad stealth, so I guess that's how this approach developed.

[Cave Man]

High stealth characters can use a technique which I'll call forage-diving, for want of a better word. When you enter a new level:
- detect: if there's nothing threatening in the vicinity, fetch any unknown items, or known desirable items
- if in doubt, take no chances (unless the item is clearly worth the risk, such as any 2d4 dagger, 1d7 rapier etc)
- if there are stairs you can walk to, do so (*up* or down - this is not power-diving!) - otherwise, Teleport - then detect, collect, walk to stairs or teleport - spot the pattern.
- as there are more down stairs than up stairs, you will move steadily down, but at a pace that will allow you to accumulate lots of useful items (potions, and devices such as Speed, TOther, Destruction, Eathquake etc)
- once you have Destruction and TOther, you might take on the occasional vault, although usually only if it has an obviously worthwhile item (see above)
- mainly kill DE Warlocks, Shadow Demons (easy, and drop lots of items) and Mumaks (low risk, lots of experience). You can also include mature dragons in this list, but I generally don't bother.
- you should always carry 99 iron spikes. Occasionally, you will encounter a non-flying unique without a range attack (eg. Stormbringer, Lems); kill them by thowing spikes across a ravine for an avalanche of experience (if this doesn't feel right, remember that you're a ninja ... you're a vampire ... you're evil ... you'd kill your mother if she had an excellent drop!).
- as you get deeper, avoid wide open levels with lots of lava - especially if you see any dragon hordes (I like to have a stack of TeleLevel scrolls for this situation - *Never* teleport on these levels)
- generally, by the time you get to lvl72, you should be equipped to handle anything - just keep an eye out for a"always awake" uniques (Iketa, Biketal, Petshop, Brand etc). If in doubt, ?TLevel.
- Once you get to clvl 31, hide-in-mud (passwall) makes the game much easier, both for raiding vaults, and killing monsters - you take less damage when fighting from within a wall.
- The above technique is only moderately risky, and the risk decreases substantially with increased speed (especially if you have a staff of speed handy).
Hope this helps.

[Donald Jonker]

this is not power-diving!

We're not in Kansas anymore..

Thanks a ton for this advice - it's exactly the kind I needed.

[Daniel Fishman]

We're not in Kansas anymore..

Thanks a ton for this advice - it's exactly the kind I needed.

And me
Cains I-III had the same not-sure-what-to-do-problem you describe, hopefully Cain IV won't

[buzzkill]

Ring of Ice (+12). Even *Identify* didn't help much. What does it do?

Stone of Lore, has perilous identify. What exactly does that mean?

Amulet of Teleportation at will. Does it need to recharge?

The ID system is starting to grate on me. If I'm going to have to *ID* every #$^^%$# item (most times to find out very little), you could at least lower the price a little.

[PaulBlay]

Ring of Ice (+12). Even *Identify* didn't help much. What does it do?

Not "Ring of Ice [+12]" ?

[Psi]

I can tell you what a couple of them do in Oangband if that helps a little...

Ring of Ice (+12). Even *Identify* didn't help much. What does it do?

rCold, +12 to AC, Activation for Frost Ball and temp rCold

Stone of Lore, has perilous identify. What exactly does that mean?

It activates for id, but there is a chance you can be confused and/or paralysed (even if you have the resists).

[Donald Jonker]

Daywalker2 died an ignoble death trying reach R'lyeh with 2 ?acquirement... :-/

but on the upside I'm still enthused to use Caveman's advice for future games.

[chem]

Daywalker2 died an ignoble death trying reach R'lyeh with 2 ?acquirement... :-/

but on the upside I'm still enthused to use Caveman's advice for future games.

What got you? After level 15-20, I've found overland travel to be pretty safe with ninja speed/stealth. I know you know about "<" for quick map view travel. hmm.

Caveman's advice was pretty good, I usually abhor ?TLevel but it makes sense here.

[Donald Jonker]

What got you? After level 15-20, I've found overland travel to be pretty safe with ninja speed/stealth. I know you know about "<" for quick map view travel. hmm.

A "Fastitocalon." One acid breath did the trick - I'll know to -telOther immediately next time. It was on the wilderness square with the stairs to R'lyeh. After a brief period of mourning, I've worked up another Cain to where his predecessor left off and gotten to the bottom of the dragon lair. Vengeance on the race of fastitocalons....

[buzzkill]

1001 questions about pets. I've a capture ball and finally learned how to use it. It's very nice that it takes up my otherwise unused shield slot when equipped.

I've captured a couple of Mature Dragons (Raggo the Red and Graggo the Gold) at 10% health remaining. How low does a potential pets health have to be before you can capture it?

I can't ride ether of my pet dragons. Lack of riding skill, which I didn't notice on my Character Screen, or un-ridable? How do I gain skill if I need it? How can I tell if a pet is penitentially ridable or not?

The Graggo the Gold seems to follow orders fairly well, but I fear poor Raggo may be, eh, a little slow. He seems to wander aimlessly most of the time, unable to follow me, or consistently attack his chosen target. What's his problem? I do not think that he is confused.

Can my pets he healed or hasted with heal/haste monster?

By using my rod of probing, I was able to determine that they seem to be gaining XP. Can they level up? What do they gain if they do?

Can I feast off of them?

Without re-storing them in the capture ball, can I have them follow me into or out of dungeons, or from level to level within a dungeon? How?

I'm contemplating making an Archangel my pet. Is this possible? What monsters can and can't be pets?

How rare are capture balls? I've seen one in a store, and I've found one in the dungeon, that's it. Currently CL26, DL30ish (glass dungeon).

I've found these dragons quite useful for softening up (unknown to me) uniques. I'm very entertained by the whole notion of pets right now, please try and tolerate it.

Unrelated to pets. What does the Quick Walk ability do? It doesn't seem to increase my speed as I thought it would.

[dzhang]

I've captured a couple of Mature Dragons (Raggo the Red and Graggo the Gold) at 10% health remaining. How low does a potential pets health have to be before you can capture it?

10% I think is the requirement, except for Beastmasters and Cavalry (which I think are 30%).

Note that if it's already your pet, then you can capture it automatically. Also note that hurt pets heal while in the Capture ball.

I can't ride ether of my pet dragons. Lack of riding skill, which I didn't notice on my Character Screen, or un-ridable? How do I gain skill if I need it? How can I tell if a pet is penitentially ridable or not?

That would be like of riding skill, which a ninja can never get. If you probe a monster, it will say if it's suitable for riding or not. All dragons are suitable for riding.

The Graggo the Gold seems to follow orders fairly well, but I fear poor Raggo may be, eh, a little slow. He seems to wander aimlessly most of the time, unable to follow me, or consistently attack his chosen target. What's his problem? I do not think that he is confused.

Monsters are generated with randomized health and Speed. Raggo may just be naturally slow. Also, you can change Pet Tactics.

Can my pets he healed or hasted with heal/haste monster?

Yes. That's a common tactic for pet-heavy classes.

By using my rod of probing, I was able to determine that they seem to be gaining XP. Can they level up? What do they gain if they do?

They don't level up so much as evolve. A baby red dragon becomes a young red dragon, which evolves into a mature red dragon, etc.

Can I feast off of them?

Yes, if they're alive (as dragons, other than Spectral Wyrms, are).

Without re-storing them in the capture ball, can I have them follow me into or out of dungeons, or from level to level within a dungeon? How?

No. Store them in your capture balls when you're ready to change levels.

I'm contemplating making an Archangel my pet. Is this possible? What monsters can and can't be pets?

I'm not sure about this one. Almost all monsters can become pets (I was never able to capture a Zombified Serpent of Chaos though :/), so I'm tempted to say Yes.

How rare are capture balls? I've seen one in a store, and I've found one in the dungeon, that's it. Currently CL26, DL30ish (glass dungeon).

They're decently common. You know you can teleport from Town to Town quickly at the Inn, right? So you can check 4 towns for equipment in shops without using too many turns.

I've found these dragons quite useful for softening up (unknown to me) uniques. I'm very entertained by the whole notion of pets right now, please try and tolerate it.

The main problem with pets is that they have a tendency to wake up groups of monsters. Caveat emptor.

Unrelated to pets. What does the Quick Walk ability do? It doesn't seem to increase my speed as I thought it would.

I think Quick Walk reduces the amount of energy it takes for you to walk. It doesn't affect your "Speed," so it doesn't affect attack rate or casting rate.

[Daniel Fishman]

From the spoilers:

Quick Walk:
removes your regenerative powers. You can walk with the energy cost (45-(lvl/2))/100 turns.

Normal energy cost for walking is 100 (though is it this, or energy gain, that is randomised to cause Entro/Heng's randomised speed system?)