trying to get farther using the suggested high elf ranger

[will_asher]

This is kindof in response/ inspired by the Easiest Win? thread.
Trying a high elf ranger (I don't know if I've ever used high elf before), I buy 2 ?phase door, a hard leather cap, hard leather boots, a cloak, and a few more arrows before decending. On the first level I hit a create monster trap which creates a groups of snagas among other things, so I phase out of there and run back up the stairs. After buying a soft leather armor (which wasn't in stock during my first time shopping), I decend to dL3, hang around there a little while picking up stuff, and then climb back to the town. Before climbing the up stairs on dL1, I wait a couple thousand turns to see if I'll get a pseudo-id from anything I've picked up. I don't. So in the town I sell the three pairs of gloves I found, and one of them turned out to be cursed. I thought a few thousand turns would be enough to find out if anything is good or cursed, so I hesitate to sell anything else yet cause I don't want to sell good stuff. Taking a risk, I go ahead and wear the soft studded leather and small shield I found, and luckily neither are cursed. Then I buy 2 ?WoR and 2 !CSW and dive again.
3rd dive: I go quickly to dL4. There, in the first room, I find an amulet of devotion (and happen to have 1 ID scroll to find out what it is). pretty nice, but not a real big help at this point. Then to dL5 (I usually don't dive even this fast.), I peek into dL6 but I detect a group of hill orcs nearby so I go back to L5. After filling the free spots in my inventory with stuff I want to ID and/or sell, I recall back to town at clvl9. I have done a lot more ID-by-using with scrolls and potions this game then I usually do. Luckily, the two stat-loss potions (weakness & clumsiness) I found happened to be ones I got back to town with and sold to ID them. I have enough gold to buy a staff of teleport but there isn't one in the magic store. There's 18 potions of speed in the black market for 270 each, and I'm wondering whether I should buy some or save my money. (I want to make sure I still have enough for a staff of teleport when I see one in the shop.)

Here's my dump at this point:

http://angband.oook.cz/ladder-show.php?id=7111

[Dragonboneman]

I'd buy a few of those speed potions, they are very useful against early unique orcs. If you run out of ammo you'll be able to hack 'n' back. You also want to get your bow enchanted ASAP.

[petebull]

Quick note: Angband now douses your light when you are in the sunshine of the town, no need to take off torches any longer.

I also id flavoured items by buying them from the shops and selling them back. I don't feel the need to dive with a staff of object detection but they're handy when hunting for stuff.

Dive faster, select rewarding fights, use stuff you don't use when you're slow diving before. I found that wands of confusing monsters can be handy to avoid damage. When in town and !remove curses or staves are available I also try out unidentified rings and amulets.

I adapted to this tactic while playing Sangband, where it's far more rewarding. I play with clev < dlev for up to dlev 20.

[will_asher]

Well, that character died on dL6 to phase door landing him in the middle of more monsters two or three times and lack of better escape method. I could have escaped if I had activated WoR sooner and healed more (even though I only had CSW and no CCW). Don't have a dump- I almost always forget to dump dead characters.

I also should remember to always use stairs immediatly after resting for long peroids of time or else the level will be full of monsters. (was resting to try to get pseudo ID on the stuff I picked up. ..stinkin slow pseudo).

..Will learn from my mistakes, and continue this thread with my next try.

[Magnate]

Good luck. Just a couple of observations:

1. Don't bother waiting to pseudo stuff as a ranger - it's tens of thousands of turns and not worth the trouble. Buy ?RC and ID cursed stuff by using. Keep possibly-good stuff in your home (especially bows) until it's full. ID ammo by selling one. ID potions & scrolls by selling your 2nd one (this way you know it's not a fluke !augmentation) - again, this quickly fills up your home, but the faster you dive, the less chaff you pick up. Buy _RC and _percep and ID stuff in the dungeon - don't obsess about carrying back stuff to sell, you will soon have more money than you need.

2. Prioritise buying a longbow (which you did) and then buying enchant scrolls for it until it is at least +8,+8. The enchant scrolls should have a priority about the same as !CCW (but lower than !speed, when you see it for sale).

3. As Pete said, select rewarding fights (monsters with low hp and high xp) - if you don't have much in the way of monster memory, my tips are nagas, jellies, mages and Bs. As soon as you hit cl20 and get your first extra shot, you're laughing. You can dive much more quickly at that point.

4. Contrary to Pete, I find _Obj really helpful when diving. Descend, detect objects, make for any unknown potions, scrolls, devices or jewelry, and take in any interesting-looking weapons and armour (and all bows and ammo). Once they're all collected, detect again - repeat until detection shows nothing worth pursuing, then take the nearest stairs. Remember this is a game about getting the right kit - killing monsters is a side issue until the very end. Kill stuff that gets in your way and/or has a high reward (xp or drop), but ignore everything else. For example, you can safely ignore all pits until such time as the monsters in them can drop stat potions (about 1700' for troll pits and about 2200' for orc pits).

For me rangers are all about finding a decent ego bow. Many of my rangers find awesome early weapons (Westernesse, HA or even artifacts), meaning that they end up doing a lot more melee than they should.

Ho hum. Enjoy,

CC

[will_asher]

Thanks all for the tips, I copied most of them to a txt file which I have open while I play. I will wait to post my next try until he gets past where the last character got.

[will_asher]

Here's my next try, I'll go dive by dive and try not to be too long and boring.

Dive 1: Didn't go past dL1 because the store didn't stock ?phase at the beginning.
Dive 2: To dL3, then bought 2 ?WoR and 1 ?teleport
Dive 3: To dL5, cL9. Had to use the ?teleport to escape from a baby white dragon created by a create monster trap. After that I was almost killed by Bullroarer, I had activated WoR and phased away a couple time, but even then it looked like he would kill me before my WoR kicked in, so I zapped a wand of wonder at him, hoping it would do something helpful. I got lucky: Bullroarer was dead after the first zap. So I read another ?WoR (my last one) to keep myself from teleporting back to town before I could pick up the stuff he dropped, knowing it was probably good stuff.
At the town, I stared longingly at a +7 boots of speed in the armory which was way out of my price range. Bought 2 ?teleport level.
Dive 4: to dL7, found Raal's TOD. I'd start enchanting my bow, but there's no enchant weapon scrolls in the alchemist shop. Also, I think I have enough for a staff of teleport but that's not in stock either. (Which is higher priority, a staff of teleport or getting my bow enchanted? I would think a staff of teleport would be more important to get first.)
Dive 5: I didn't go any deeper. Just explored dL7, got some loot and recalled again. Maybe I'm slipping back to my old ways. Better make sure I dive further. Bought a staff of teleportation, started enchanting my bow, and discovered a holy avenger trident among my loot so I have a new weapon. (before that was a +2 +3 longsword which Bullroarer dropped).
Dive 6: to dL10, cL14.
Dive 7: I didn't dive any deeper because I filled my inventory quickly. (maybe I should be willing to drop more stuff.) I come back with a +4 +5 main gauche which I wield and enchant up to +4 +8 (no enchant to-hit scrolls in the shop), and my long bow is now at +2 +7.
Dive 8: to dL13, found shield of resistance on L11. only recalled because my torch was about to go out and I forgot to bring spares. (I have found a lantern but decided in favor of the torch of brightness for the wider light range.) I bought a gauntlets of power from the black market. It lowers my mana some, but it's hard to resist the +5 to strength, and I'm not using spells a lot right now anyway.
Dive 9: to dL15, cL18. Now I have both my main gauche and long bow at +8 +8.
Dive 10: to dL17, cL19. Here's the dump at this point:

http://angband.oook.cz/ladder-show.php?id=7111

[Dragonboneman]

Looking good so far.
Keep diving, you have Free Action and See Invisible so you should aim for statgain depths (1700' onwards) but avoid anything that blinds or confuses. Beware passing 2000' without some form of poison resist though.
Keep looking for wands of Teleport Other. Teleporting yourself can be dangerous, sometimes lethal. Carry teleport scrolls as well as staves. Staves can fail.
Don't be afraid to sell Raal's if you need gold- it is of limited use to rangers and you'll find more.
Apart from that, just detect, detect, detect. Choose your battles carefully and you'll be fine.

[Magnate]

Dive 3: To dL5, cL9. Had to use the ?teleport to escape from a baby white dragon created by a create monster trap. After that I was almost killed by Bullroarer, I had activated WoR and phased away a couple time, but even then it looked like he would kill me before my WoR kicked in, so I zapped a wand of wonder at him, hoping it would do something helpful. I got lucky: Bullroarer was dead after the first zap. So I read another ?WoR (my last one) to keep myself from teleporting back to town before I could pick up the stuff he dropped, knowing it was probably good stuff.

That's a great story. What a fun game. I'm trying to train myself to use wands of wonder, by playing ironman. I ignore them normally.

Dive 4: to dL7, found Raal's TOD. I'd start enchanting my bow, but there's no enchant weapon scrolls in the alchemist shop. Also, I think I have enough for a staff of teleport but that's not in stock either. (Which is higher priority, a staff of teleport or getting my bow enchanted? I would think a staff of teleport would be more important to get first.)

I would suggest that enchanting the bow is a higher priority. The staff of teleport is no better than a scroll of teleport unless you're blind or confused (in fact the scroll is better if you're not, since it never fails). At such a low clev you will have almost no chance of successful activation while blind or confused, so there is very little point investing in the staff until you're higher level (I buy one after passing cl20). Until then just carry a couple of teleport scrolls (or better, tele level), and !speed/!CCW for emergencies involving blindness/confusion.

Dive 7: I didn't dive any deeper because I filled my inventory quickly. (maybe I should be willing to drop more stuff.) I come back with a +4 +5 main gauche which I wield and enchant up to +4 +8 (no enchant to-hit scrolls in the shop), and my long bow is now at +2 +7.

Yes, you should practice *not* picking up stuff just to sell. Recall only when you run out of consumables (food/light/heal/escape) or when your inv is full of stuff you want to stash at home (ood devices for example, or swap items). One good rule is to say that you will not bother selling anything that's not an ego item. That keeps you adventuring for much longer before your pack fills with rubbish.

How on earth is the main gauche better than the holy avenger?? I guess you get an extra blow with it? Even so, I'm sure the HA is a better weapon.

I bought a gauntlets of power from the black market. It lowers my mana some, but it's hard to resist the +5 to strength, and I'm not using spells a lot right now anyway.

The danger with this is that you're tempted to do a lot more melee. I've done this too, and my rangers *all* die because they get into melee fights that they should have avoided.

My final suggestion is that you don't take the advice about not going below 2000' without rpoison: this is exactly the kind of delay which is anathema to diving. Sure, with rpoison you can survive a poison breath, but the philosophy of diving is different: the idea is to avoid poison breath, not withstand it. So go below 2000' with plenty of escapes, healing and sources of detection and haste, and don't worry about your resists. The same goes for 1000' and FA. Since you have innate SI there is nothing you can't detect that can poison or paralyse you without you being able to avoid it. Once you have -tother it gets even easier.

Of course, if you find you don't like diving, by all means play the traditional way. It's all about what you enjoy.

CC

[Dragonboneman]

My final suggestion is that you don't take the advice about not going below 2000' without rpoison: this is exactly the kind of delay which is anathema to diving.

I didn't say "don't do it". I said BEWARE doing it; ie it can be done but be VERY careful.

[zaimoni]

Dive 7: I didn't dive any deeper because I filled my inventory quickly. (maybe I should be willing to drop more stuff.) I come back with a +4 +5 main gauche which I wield and enchant up to +4 +8 (no enchant to-hit scrolls in the shop), and my long bow is now at +2 +7.

Assuming that I wasn't low on supplies and had adequate ID (to enable appropriate stacking), for money items in early game
* DL 3: wands are usually better than merely enchanted armor for money; easier to force stacking. Have to get to this level on the first trip to avoid money problems for second trip.
* DL 8: the chance of seeing ego weapons/armor starts being noticeable rather than fluky. Unless running out of supplies, recall only when out of "expendable slots".

I find that my money problems completely end on DL8 because merely enchanted weapons and armor become expendable slots, as do low-level town spellbooks; ego weapons bounce all of them out of inventory. [Do overstuff home with low-level town spell books to prevent problems with stores not having them when you need them.]

[will_asher]

How on earth is the main gauche better than the holy avenger?? I guess you get an extra blow with it? Even so, I'm sure the HA is a better weapon.

With the gauntlets of power, I get 4 attacks with the main gauche and 2 with the holy avenger trident. (which I've sold by this point) One of the main advantages of holy avenger is SI and I have that anyway. Am I wrong about the main gauche being better?

The danger with this is that you're tempted to do a lot more melee. I've done this too, and my rangers *all* die because they get into melee fights that they should have avoided.

I'm not used to playing rangers much, so I melee kinda often anyway, and I'm getting out of that habit. Better melee ability won't stop me from continuing to use my bow more.

Of course, if you find you don't like diving, by all means play the traditional way. It's all about what you enjoy.

I'm not and was never trying to become a speed diver, I'm just trying to get my first win. I'm just calling my trips down into the dungeon 'diving' because it's faster than typing 'trips down into the dungeon'. Didn't mean to mislead.
I may not be diving real fast, but it's still faster than I'm used to diving. Just want to dive fast enough to make me a better player and prevent tedium and hopefully carelessness.

..again thanks everyone for the tips.

Dive 11: to dL23, cL23. recalled because I ran out of arrows. I updated my dump. nothing that much is different about it, but after I made the dump I bought a +5 ring of constitution from the black market. Wondering which of the rod of cold balls or staff of dispell evil I should take with me and which to leave at home.

-Will

[Mondkalb]

Wow! Amulet of Devotion on Dlvl4. That is pretty lucky. That is a Level 70 item.

[petebull]

4. Contrary to Pete, I find _Obj really helpful when diving.

What I meant was that I don't buy _Obj on the first trips as other stuff and knowledge is more important. And _Obj is normally obvious on the first try of an unknown staff after descending the stairs.

I switched from Dunedain warriors to HE rangers after my first posts and they are really fun. I didn't make it past 1300' but am getting deeper than most warriors.

[Diogenes]

Go Go Go!

Love to see more results - I think I will have a go at the HE Ranger, too. HT Fighters (clev 30, dlev 21) get a bit boring after a while.

Beat the jiffies out for Morgoth for me, please :-)

Cheers,

Peter.