Priest Class - Strategy/Tactics Discussion

[marlowe221]

My recommendation for you to take your game to the next level (and maybe a few past that!) is to watch the "Let's Play Angband" videos posted by Fizzix on YouTube. You will soon have that priest fathoms down fighting the Big Bosses.

I will definitely check those videos out.

[Shany]

So the stealth value is always between 0 and 30, and the noise you make is halved with every +1 to stealth.

The noise value is also used just once, in the meaning "if you're more noisy than a 'cubed random int', and you're close enough, decrease the monster's sleepiness with '100 / distance'".

The exponent grows faster than the cube, so, although your chance to awake monster decreases with every +1 to stealth, it decreases more and more slowly with every next +1.

[Shany]

IIRC stealth effect is not linear. One point more at 15 means something else than one point more at 10.

Yes, it's not linear, it's exponential. This is the only place stealth value used in source code:

/* Limit Skill -- stealth from 0 to 30 */
if (state->skills[SKILL_STEALTH] > 30) state->skills[SKILL_STEALTH] = 30;
if (state->skills[SKILL_STEALTH] < 0) state->skills[SKILL_STEALTH] = 0;

/* Apply Skill -- Extract noise from stealth */
state->noise = (1L << (30 - state->skills[SKILL_STEALTH]));

So the stealth value is always between 0 and 30, and the noise you make is halved with every +1 to stealth.

[Timo Pietilä]

You're misreading the stat growth with levels. It's not every level, it's every 10 levels. Weird hacks like this are needed because Angband doesn't understand decimal points: it only ever operates on integers.

Correct. Priest X-line for save: 12, which means 1.2 points / clvl. I should have remembered that.

In that case may I suggest that everyone gets something like 0.1 /clvl for stealth, Rogue 0.4 and the effect of stealth changed to linear instead of exponential? IMO Stealth is a experience-driven skill far more than equipment-driven. Especially when working outside of direct LoS.

[Derakon]

Hobbit rogue gets 7 at start, and unlike all other classes gets one point / clvl more. So at clvl 23 you have hit the cap even without any extra stealth equipments. No wonder I needed to carry items with aggravation with hobbit rogue.

You're misreading the stat growth with levels. It's not every level, it's every 10 levels. Weird hacks like this are needed because Angband doesn't understand decimal points: it only ever operates on integers.

[Bogatyr]

I have carried with me some item with aggravation with insane-stealth chars just to wake up things when walking in LoS of them is too dangerous (let them come to you, not the other way around).

Yes this is a good tactic. ESP makes it much more effective/safer.

[Timo Pietilä]

The first bit is true, the second bit isn't. The stealth scale is exponential, which is why stealth is capped at IIRC 30

Hobbit rogue gets 7 at start, and unlike all other classes gets one point / clvl more. So at clvl 23 you have hit the cap even without any extra stealth equipments. No wonder I needed to carry items with aggravation with hobbit rogue.

For other classes clvl doesn't do anything. IMO it should. Maybe make it linear and use a lot bigger values than single-digit for items.

[the Invisible Stalker]

That's pretty much it. Unless the V code differs from the FA code. I'm too lazy to check. The loss of awakeness is negative exponential in stealth, as described, and inversely proportional to distance. The distance in question is not exactly Euclidean distance but rather some rough approximation. It also depends on what you are doing. Some activities are noisier than others.

[Derakon]

IIRC stealth effect is not linear. One point more at 15 means something else than one point more at 10.

I think that if it gets high enough game just wakes up monsters (or not) based on some fixed % that doesn't change even if you get more stealth. How high that is, I have no idea.

The first bit is true, the second bit isn't. The stealth scale is exponential, which is why stealth is capped at IIRC 30: it's necessary to ensure that the stealth calculations fit within a 32-bit integer. I did the math awhile back, and every time your stealth goes up by 3, it takes approximately (not exactly) twice as long for monsters to wake up, on average. But it's a statistical process.

If I remember correctly, and I admit it's been awhile, every monster has an "awakeness" rating that indicates how deeply it sleeps. Hounds don't sleep at all, rogues are easy to wake up, dragons sleep deeply. Every time you flub a stealth roll, the monster gets a bit more awake, depending on how far away from it you are (and maybe depending on how badly you failed? I forget). Once their awakeness hits 0 they wake up.

[Timo Pietilä]

Changed it to Excellent1/Excellent2, Superb1-Superb5, Heroic1-Heroic4 in my copy. Yes, I know it's "not fair", but I don't understand why "Good" or "Very Good" is for one value, and "Superb" is for five.

IIRC stealth effect is not linear. One point more at 15 means something else than one point more at 10.

I think that if it gets high enough game just wakes up monsters (or not) based on some fixed % that doesn't change even if you get more stealth. How high that is, I have no idea.

I have carried with me some item with aggravation with insane-stealth chars just to wake up things when walking in LoS of them is too dangerous (let them come to you, not the other way around).

[Bogatyr]

Nice to see this thread still going!

Unfortunately, it hasn't helped me much - I am still tragically bad at Priest. My max depth in this game is DL 35 and that was as a Warrior. I can't even get half that far with a Priest!

That said, all this stealth talk has me wanting to try out a Rogue!

Hobbit rogue is awesome, starts the game with +7 stealth .

My main goal with mage (priest) is to get to 18/200 INT (WIS for priest) ASAP. That means drinking/buying any and all potions of Intellect/Intelligence (Contemplation/Widsom for priest), wearing rings of int (two if I have to), caps of intelligence, etc. Sacrificing all other stats and abilities to max out INT first. This gives 0% fail on spells, which, once you get 0% teleport other, means your game is at a whole new level. Once you get the powerful 0% fail escape spells from the dungeon spell books (destruction, teleport level, create doors) you're basically invulnerable as long as you have blindness/confusion/stun covered. Once you know you have 0% fail you can play more on the "edge" knowing (the spell part of) your strategy will work, guaranteed.

I'm still trying to get my head around general priest strategy as well, but the main thing is that you melee/shoot, phase, and heal. With 18/200+ WIS you will have more then enough mana to keep healing yourself as long as you keep your battles one on one. And the priest's high save means the ailments won't bother you as much.

[Ingwe Ingweron]

Nice to see this thread still going!

Unfortunately, it hasn't helped me much - I am still tragically bad at Priest. My max depth in this game is DL 35 and that was as a Warrior. I can't even get half that far with a Priest!

That said, all this stealth talk has me wanting to try out a Rogue!

My recommendation for you to take your game to the next level (and maybe a few past that!) is to watch the "Let's Play Angband" videos posted by Fizzix on YouTube. You will soon have that priest fathoms down fighting the Big Bosses.

[marlowe221]

Nice to see this thread still going!

Unfortunately, it hasn't helped me much - I am still tragically bad at Priest. My max depth in this game is DL 35 and that was as a Warrior. I can't even get half that far with a Priest!

That said, all this stealth talk has me wanting to try out a Rogue!

[Shany]

 7-8  = Excellent
 9-13 = Superb
14-17 = Heroic

Changed it to Excellent1/Excellent2, Superb1-Superb5, Heroic1-Heroic4 in my copy. Yes, I know it's "not fair", but I don't understand why "Good" or "Very Good" is for one value, and "Superb" is for five.

[MattB]

Found it in source code.

 0-1  = Bad
  2   = Poor
 3-4  = Fair
  5   = Good
  6   = Very Good
 7-8  = Excellent
 9-13 = Superb
14-17 = Heroic
18-...= Legendary

That is weirdly arbitrary...