beginners question about weapon stats [armor, too, perhaps]

[MattB]

EDIT: pretty sure saving throws don't apply to experience drain. However, if you have nether resistance, then you get 90% protection from experience drain, and the other 10% of the time you only lose 10% as much experience as you would normally.

Do you mean HoldLife? I was under the impression that nether resistance completely blocked xp drain from nether attacks. Or maybe I'm wrong...

[Derakon]

Correction: most of the enemies in the early game run up to you and hit to shoot acid.

vim monster.txt
:%s/:ACID:/:EXP_80:

Happy now?

EDIT: pretty sure saving throws don't apply to experience drain. However, if you have Hold Life (see below; thanks!), then you get 90% protection from experience drain, and the other 10% of the time you only lose 10% as much experience as you would normally.

As for stealth, it just slows down the rate at which monsters wake up. Every 3 points of stealth you have make you roughly twice as stealthy (it's an exponential function). There's no benefit from surprise-attacking monsters, although stealthy characters can sometimes kill off a group of sleeping monsters one by one instead of having to face the entire group at once.

[debo]

Correction: most of the enemies in the early game run up to you and hit to shoot acid.

[Derakon]

Well I could not ask for better, thanks a lot, I should now play for a moment before coming back to you.
If I remember well a big part of my frustration came at first because I had the feeling lots of the monsters I encountered could be switched. I mean I haven't the feeling 1 mob = 1 different threat, but that I met swarm of quite identical mobs with different names instead, finding difficult to invest myself into the game.

Yeah, the early game is pretty slow and most of the monsters are just "run up and hit you" types. Frankly a lot of the monsters in the game are primarily dangerous from their melee attacks, but at least later on they start mixing that up with spells or with attacks that do things in addition to simply hurting you.

I suggest you roll up a Half-Troll Warrior and then dive. Take every down staircase you see and pretty soon you'll be facing off against more interesting monsters. And then probably you'll die, but hey, maybe you won't.

[Timo Pietilä]

You are probably playing with the no-selling option, which is default in the newest version. You can change that, but since it is a birth option, you have to create a new character to do so.
No selling is considered to be more convenient because it frees inventory slots - you don't have to carry stuff to town to sell it, in order to get money. With no selling on, you will find more gold in the dungeon in return.

Also you notice that instead of lugging stuff for selling you actually use stuff you pick up from dungeon. A ego-weapon that is plain worse than you have currently just gets left behind and (less expensive) wand of annihilation you picked up gets used instead of left behind.

Makes gaming better in so many ways.

[Mondkalb]

The noobest question ever : I try to sell items, I have read it is done by using the d command. But once I have identified my items, all the others are not worth considering for any merchant.
Is there a secret command to sell an item ?

Extra question : how does stealth work ? Is there a bonus when attacking stealthily a monster ?

You are probably playing with the no-selling option, which is default in the newest version. You can change that, but since it is a birth option, you have to create a new character to do so.
No selling is considered to be more convenient because it frees inventory slots - you don't have to carry stuff to town to sell it, in order to get money. With no selling on, you will find more gold in the dungeon in return.

[Timo Pietilä]

What about things like 'spit to blind' or 'gaze to confuse'? I.e. status ailments from melee attacks rather than elemental attacks.

I think paralyzation is only one you get save against. All others do what they do unless you have appropriate resist or protection. Assuming they hit you (high AC helps). With perfect saving throw you don't need Free Action anymore.

[EDIT] I think saving throw also affects XP drain from undead touches, but I'm not sure what the formula is, is it direct block, or does it just get drained less or what. Or maybe it doesn't affect at all.

[Gobbopathe]

The noobest question ever : I try to sell items, I have read it is done by using the d command. But once I have identified my items, all the others are not worth considering for any merchant.
Is there a secret command to sell an item ?

Extra question : how does stealth work ? Is there a bonus when attacking stealthily a monster ?

[MattB]

What about things like 'spit to blind' or 'gaze to confuse'? I.e. status ailments from melee attacks rather than elemental attacks.

[Timo Pietilä]

However, anything that happens as a side-effect of an elemental attack cannot be saved against

Exception to that; Nexus stat scrambling and level teleport. Those two get save.

[Gobbopathe]

Well I could not ask for better, thanks a lot, I should now play for a moment before coming back to you.
If I remember well a big part of my frustration came at first because I had the feeling lots of the monsters I encountered could be switched. I mean I haven't the feeling 1 mob = 1 different threat, but that I met swarm of quite identical mobs with different names instead, finding difficult to invest myself into the game.

[Derakon]

Gobbopathe: unfortunately, Angband's formulae are needlessly complicated. Determining your chance to hit is pretty involved. Fortunately the monster memory does show you your chance to hit with your currently equipped melee weapon. Determining your chance to be hit, though...I don't think anyone actually knows that off the top of their head. Probably monster level (i.e. native depth) plays into it somehow, and of course your AC does as well.

As for saving throws, there's only one kind of saving throw and it's used for everything you can save against. In D&D terms it's mostly a combination Will/Reflex save, but it derives from your WIS, class, race, and level (primarily class and level). Almost all of the really unpleasant effects can be saved against. However, anything that happens as a side-effect of an elemental attack (including inventory/equipment damage, confusion, blindness, stunning, poisoning, etc) cannot be saved against; you need the relevant elemental resistance, or the appropriate status protection, instead.

I hope this is helpful.

[MattB]

Sorry, not really. There are probably lots of tables and arrays somewhere.

Well, since you asked...

CALCULATING MELEE COMBAT ABILITY
--------------------------------

Many factors are taken into account when considering your character's skill in
successfully landing a blow in hand-to-hand combat.  The outline for
calculating the numerical rating of this skill is as follows:

               base class ability
    +             racial modifier
    +              level modifier
  -------------------------------
          base melee combat skill

                strength modifier
    +          dexterity modifier
    -   armor encumbrance penalty
    + equipment bonuses/penalties
    -        heavy weapon penalty
    -        edged weapon penalty
    +       temporary spell bonus
    -            stunning penalty
  -------------------------------
            bonus to combat skill

Overall melee combat skill = base melee skill + (3 * bonus to combat skill)

Here follows more detail on each item in the outline:

I. Calculating base melee combat skill

   Use the following table.  Begin with the base skill for your character's
   class.  Add your character's experience level times the melee bonus per
   level.  Finally, add or subtract the appropriate race modifier.

            Base  Bonus per
   Class   skill  level         Race     Modifier    Race     Modifier
   -------------------          -----------------    -----------------
   Warrior    70   4.5          Human           0    Dwarf          15
   Mage       34   1.5          Half-Elf       -1    Half-Orc       12
   Priest     48   2.0          Elf            -5    Half-Troll     20
   Rogue      60   3.0          Hobbit        -10    Dunadan        15
   Ranger     56   4.5          Gnome          -8    High-Elf       10
   Paladin    68   3.0                               Kobold         -5


II. Calculating the bonus to combat skill

   The bonus to combat skill appears as the first number of the pair shown
   for "Melee" on the character statistics screen.  The number appearing there 
   may be inaccurate if your character is using unidentified magical
   equipment.  The bonus is calculated as follows:

   A. Strength modifier

      Begin by taking the bonus to-hit corresponding to your character's
      strength.

                   +to                  +to                  +to
         Strength  hit        Strength  hit        Strength  hit
      ----------------   ------------------   ------------------
                3   -3     18/90-18/99    4   18/150-18/159   10
                4   -2   18/100-18/109    5   18/160-18/169   11
              5-6   -1   18/110-18/119    6   18/170-18/179   12
             7-17    0   18/120-18/129    7   18/180-18/189   13
         18-18/69    1   18/130-18/139    8   18/190-18/199   14
      18/70-18/79    2   18/140-18/149    9         18/200+   15
      18/80-18/89    3

   B. Dexterity modifier

      Add in the appropriate dexterity modifier from the following table:

                 +to                  +to                  +to
      Dexterity  hit       Dexterity  hit       Dexterity  hit
      --------------   ------------------   ------------------
              3   -3     18/50-18/89    4   18/150-18/159   10
            4-5   -2     18/90-18/99    5   18/160-18/169   11
            6-7   -1   18/100-18/109    6   18/170-18/179   12
           8-15    0   18/110-18/119    7   18/180-18/189   13
             16    1   18/120-18/129    8   18/190-18/199   14
             17    2   18/130-18/149    9         18/200+   15
       18-18/49    3

   C. Armor encumbrance penalty

      Heavy body armor restricts your character's movement somewhat and can
      impair combat ability when worn.  The negative number enclosed in
      parentheses before the brackets in the inventory description of heavy
      body armor describes this impairment; penalize your character's bonus
      to combat ability accordingly (the penalty may range from -1 to -8).

   D. Equipment Bonuses

      Many magical items affect your character's chance to hit when they are 
      equipped.  In general, any item that, when identified, shows a pair of 
      numbers in the same manner weapons do (i.e, "(+3,+4)") provides a bonus.
      The to-hit bonus is the first of the two numbers.   (The second number 
      is the to-damage bonus.)

      Equipment which has a bonus to both to-hit and to-damage include all
      weapons (and diggers), Handwear of Slaying/Power/Combat, Gloves of 
      Thievery, Rings of Slaying, Amulets of Weaponmastery, and some artifacts.
      Rings of Accuracy provide a to-hit bonus but no to-damage bonus.

   E. Heavy weapon penalty

      Your character is heavily penalized for attempting to equip a weapon
      (either melee or missile) that is too heavy for him or her to use
      without difficulty.  The following chart gives the upper limit (in
      pounds) on how heavy a weapon a given strength enables a character to
      wield without great effort:

      Str.  Limit                   Strength  Limit
      -----------              --------------------
         3      4                         17     28
         4      5                   18-18/19     30
         5      6                18/20-18/29     35
         6      7                18/30-18/39     40
         7      8                18/40-18/49     45
         8     10                18/50-18/59     50
         9     12                18/60-18/69     55
        10     14                18/70-18/79     60
        11     16                18/80-18/89     65
        12     18                18/90-18/99     70
        13     20              18/100-18/149     80
        14     22              18/150-18/199     90
        15     24                    18/200+    100
        16     26

      If your character has equipped a weapon that is too heavy, the bonus to
      combat skill is reduced by two points per pound that the weapon is
      overweight.  The penalties for wielding both a heavy melee weapon and a
      heavy bow are cumulative; wielding an overweight bow will adversely
      affect melee combat skill, and vice versa.

   F. Edged weapon penalty

      The gods of the world of Angband generally dislike the shedding of
      blood.  Hence their priests are uncomfortable with the use of edged
      weapons or polearms, with the exception of blessed weapons which are
      approved for holy war.  (Apart from generic Blessed Weapons, blessed
      weapons also include Holy Avengers, weapons of *Slay* Evil, and some
      artifacts.)  If a priest is wielding an unblessed edged weapon/polearm,
      subtract 2 from his or her bonus to combat skill.

   G. Temporary spell bonus

      Several spells and enchantments can provide a temporary boost to
      one's skill in fighting.  Here is a table of these magics, and their
      numerical effects:

      Spell         +to hit
      ---------------------
      Blessing          +10
      Heroism           +12
      Berserk Strength  +24

   H. Stunning penalty

      If your character is stunned, he or she will be less able to
      successfully inflict damage in combat.

      If your character is heavily stunned (the stun counter is between
      51 and 100 inclusive), subtract 20 from the cumulative total of
      the bonus to melee skill.

      If your character is stunned but not heavily stunned (the stun
      counter is between 1 and 50 inclusive), subtract 5.

III. Calculating the overall melee combat skill

To calculate your character's overall melee combat skill, simply add three
times the total bonus obtained in section II above to the base melee combat
skill obtained in section I.


CALCULATING THE PROBABILITY OF SUCCESSFULLY LANDING A BLOW
----------------------------------------------------------

Once you have made the calculations in the previous section, you can now
calculate the probability of hitting any monster whose armor class is known.

First of all, your character will always miss a monster 1 in 20 times, and
will always hit a monster 1 in 20 times.  This is true regardless of the skill
of the character or any armor protection the monster may possess; it reflects
the randomness of combat and the fact that (un)lucky breaks can and do occur.

In the other 90% of cases, begin with the rating for overall melee combat
skill.  (If this is non-positive, then your character can only hit a
monster (any monster) the minimum 1 in 20 times.)  It is much harder to hit
a monster that you cannot see (which can occur if you are blind, if you
have no light, or if the monster is invisible); if this is the case, divide
by 2, rounding up.  Call the resulting visibility-modified rating K.  Then
the chance of successfully hitting the monster is:
	(K-(3/4 of the monster's AC)) in K.

For example, say that your character's overall melee combat skill is 150, and
he is trying to hit a Drolem (AC 130).  The possible outcomes are:
	 5% - automatic hit
	90% - hit (150 - 97.5)/150 = 35% of the time, else miss
	 5% - automatic miss
The net probability to hit is thus 36.5%.

P.S. Lots of this is probably out of date by now, but it gives you an idea of the complexity!

[MattB]

Hello, I am a total beginner to Angband (but not to roguelikes). To be honest I tried one year ago but could not find my pleasure at the time.
I want to try again, since I loved Sil.

Hi, welcome to Angband!

Could you just tell me where I could find any information about the dice rolls when attacking, searching, saving throws ?

Sorry, not really. There are probably lots of tables and arrays somewhere.

What does "to hit 28, +1" mean ? Why is it not written +29 on this dwarf character sheet I have just started since the +1 does not seem to be a +1 damage since I can read above "melee 1d4, +3"

It is written '28,+1' because your character has +28 to hit, and your equipment (or DEX bonus??) gives you an extra +1.
As for what this means exactly...I suspect no-one really knows.
It is certainly not +1 to dam, as you say.

The 36% saving throw concern what kind of attack I could experienced, since there are various flavors ?

You get that roll to save against all sorts of things, e.g. damaging curses, nexus stat scramble, ceiling collapse and I think attacks that blind, confuse etc..

[Gobbopathe]

Hello, I am a total beginner to Angband (but not to roguelikes). To be honest I tried one year ago but could not find my pleasure at the time.
I want to try again, since I loved Sil.

Could you just tell me where I could find any information about the dice rolls when attacking, searching, saving throws ? I like to understand the mechanics behind the scene.
About the basics, attack rolls : is it a d20 roll to hit against AC ? If equal, does the attacker wins or the defender ?
What does "to hit 28, +1" mean ? Why is it not written +29 on this dwarf character sheet I have just started since the +1 does not seem to be a +1 damage since I can read above "melee 1d4, +3"

The 36% saving throw concern what kind of attack I could experienced, since there are various flavors ?

Thanks a lot, and I hope this thread is appropriate