overpowered races?

[Timo Pietilä]

Well, it's mentioned in Silmarillion that when Aule created dwarves they might move only by his direct commands:

"For thou hast from me as a gift thy own bring only, and no more; and therefore the creatures of thy hand and mind can live only by that being, moving when thou thinkest to move them, and if thy thought be elsewhere, standing idle. Is that thy desire?"

Had forgotten that.

Tolkien himself was not quite sure what trolls were. They don't seem corrupted ents. They might have been made as mockery of ents, but not like orcs. Anyway, this is starting to be a bit too academic for fiction created by man long gone. We can't ask the source, so question remains unanswered.

[mewmew]

>"Free will" is also questionable thing. If they are Melkor creations, they might need an spiritual overlord of some kind to be able to act. A bit like The One is alive they are alive, because they are bind to whatever thing created them. Melkor isn't dead, just imprisoned.

Well, it's mentioned in Silmarillion that when Aule created dwarves they might move only by his direct commands:

"For thou hast from me as a gift thy own bring only, and no more; and therefore the creatures of thy hand and mind can live only by that being, moving when thou thinkest to move them, and if thy thought be elsewhere, standing idle. Is that thy desire?"

I don't think it's very plausible that Morgoth command every move of every existing troll personally... Nazguls had human souls, orcs are corrupted elves, werewolves/wargs are some spirits tied to wolven bodies, possibly the second part may be related to trolls too, not sure. Anyway, I googled a bit and it seems that LoTR mentioned some "troll-men" without describing exactly who were those:

"East rode the knights of Dol Amroth driving the enemy before them: troll-men and Variags and orcs that hated the sunlight."

[T-Mick]

Since someone brought up Half-Elves and their Un-Tolkien lameness, it should be said that Quickband has the best Half-Elves. They have good stats, not exactly Dunedain or High-Elf level, but all plusses, and have a sort of permanent Auto-Scum, flavored as a "great destiny", which makes them awesome. Quickband is already a fast game, but Auto-Scum + Half-Elf makes for coffeebreak speeds.

[Timo Pietilä]

Yeah, trolls were corrupted ents. Given the ents could originally breed (before they lost the Entwives), I see no reason why trolls couldn't breed. Though the whole "half-whatever" thing would be problematic due to scale differences if nothing else.

I expect ents having quite different method of breeding than humanoids do. I think same applies to trolls too.

"Free will" is also questionable thing. If they are Melkor creations, they might need an spiritual overlord of some kind to be able to act. A bit like The One is alive they are alive, because they are bind to whatever thing created them. Melkor isn't dead, just imprisoned.

[Derakon]

Yeah, trolls were corrupted ents. Given the ents could originally breed (before they lost the Entwives), I see no reason why trolls couldn't breed. Though the whole "half-whatever" thing would be problematic due to scale differences if nothing else.

[Timo Pietilä]

Well, trolls definitely had free will (it's clear in "The Hobbit" for instance) so they should be some race corrupted by Morgoth or Sauron, possibly ents? Beorn was human.

That's what Treebeard thought. Beorn was also shapeshifter. Not sure if that were-thing was herited, disease or what, but there definitely were shapeshifters in Tolkien world. Vampires, werewolves the lot.

[mewmew]

Well, trolls definitely had free will (it's clear in "The Hobbit" for instance) so they should be some race corrupted by Morgoth or Sauron, possibly ents? Beorn was human.

[Timo Pietilä]

haradrim and wildmen races

i don't recall giants in lotr but it actually could have half-trolls (not sure what could be the second half though) since it mentions some breed of trolls which could suffer sunlight

Troll and something else than humans? Maybe. Tolkien trolls were not really "alive" like humans, dwarves and elves are, they were more like golems. You could breed with them just as much as you could breed with a rock. There were several different types of trolls though.

Giants are mentioned in the Hobbit. Also shapeshifters (Beorn).

[mewmew]

haradrim and wildmen races

i don't recall giants in lotr but it actually could have half-trolls (not sure what could be the second half though) since it mentions some breed of trolls which could suffer sunlight

[Mark]

If we would make angband truly Tolkien, then half-troll and kobold would need to be removed, half-elf and elf boosted quite a lot, and maybe add pure orc as race. (orc as replacement to kobold. Maybe half-giant in place of half-troll?)

Half-elf and dunedain should be about equals to each other. High-elf a bit boosted version of Elf. Elf at least equal to human.

And all classes would be HARD. The new 'noob' class would be Maia!

[Timo Pietilä]

Awesome! In that case, we should remove High Elf and Dunedain from the race options at birth and just have half-elf. Half-elves would then gain the 'ability' (forced choice) at level 30 to become either a High Elf or a Dunedain! Perfect!

More seriously - that's good to know. Thanks

If we would make angband truly Tolkien, then half-troll and kobold would need to be removed, half-elf and elf boosted quite a lot, and maybe add pure orc as race. (orc as replacement to kobold. Maybe half-giant in place of half-troll?)

Half-elf and dunedain should be about equals to each other. High-elf a bit boosted version of Elf. Elf at least equal to human.

[Mark]

The half-elves in Middle-Earth are all descendants of Elwing (daughter of Idril Celebrindal, more-or-less princess of Gondolin, and Tuor, son of Huor) and Eärendil (son of Dior, heir to King Thingol, and Nimloth, niece of Celeborn), and were given the choice between the two halves of their heritage.

Since the first king of the Numenoreans was their son Elros (Elrond's brother), it's pretty accurate to say that they're either Dunedain or High-Elves. (In fact, they've even got something in their blood that High-Elves don't have, since Elwing's great-grandmother was a Maia.)

Awesome! In that case, we should remove High Elf and Dunedain from the race options at birth and just have half-elf. Half-elves would then gain the 'ability' (forced choice) at level 30 to become either a High Elf or a Dunedain! Perfect!

More seriously - that's good to know. Thanks

[danaris]

Really? I thought Dunadan were descendents of the numenoreans (humans), who had their life-span lengthened as a sort of reward for allying against Morgoth; but I didn't know there was anything truly elvish in their blood.

The half-elves in Middle-Earth are all descendants of Elwing (daughter of Idril Celebrindal, more-or-less princess of Gondolin, and Tuor, son of Huor) and Eärendil (son of Dior, heir to King Thingol, and Nimloth, niece of Celeborn), and were given the choice between the two halves of their heritage.

Since the first king of the Numenoreans was their son Elros (Elrond's brother), it's pretty accurate to say that they're either Dunedain or High-Elves. (In fact, they've even got something in their blood that High-Elves don't have, since Elwing's great-grandmother was a Maia.)

[Timo Pietilä]

I always thought that the most overpowered race was dwarf. Unless you play a mage, you have good stats, infravision and resistance to blindness. Not mentionning high skill values...

Dwarf, Dunadan, Hobbit, Gnome, Kobold, Half-Troll, Half-orc, High-Elf and even humans all have distinct advantages over each other making them different, but not much more powerful than each other. Half-elf and elf are weaklings that are not particularly good at anything and have penalty to CON which makes them harder to play than anything else.

[Mark]

Tolkein half-elves, as I understand it, were either High-Elves or Dunadan; they chose which destiny to follow rather than having some kind of hybrid status.

Really? I thought Dunadan were descendents of the numenoreans (humans), who had their life-span lengthened as a sort of reward for allying against Morgoth; but I didn't know there was anything truly elvish in their blood.

Anyway, removing half-elves seems like an easy solution. Not creative, but perhaps that's ok. Still plenty of races and Half-Elf doesn't meaningful add to the variety imo